The Technology Vent and Rant Thread

[j.p.s]

Splash screen masking boot process on a live "CD" image.

But see the new The Technology Joy & Delight Thread

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...67#post4513867

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

What other brands use Panasonic "inverter" microwave technology?

(I know that e.g. Consumer Reports say it doesn't make a difference, but it does for me boiling pasta, which is my preferred method.)

If there are any, do any of them have a better UI?
Panasonic saves 1 button push if you are using full power, but power level selection method is absurd for low power. Also Panasonic doesn't have 1 button push for 30 seconds or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 5 minutes.

Afraid I don't know. Mine's one of the aforementioned Magic Chef models. It does have the Start/+30 seconds button though. Power setting is... um... press Time Cook and enter a time, press Power and a number from 1 to 9 for 10% to 90%, press Start. Oh, and it does have one-button "express" for 1-6 minutes.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by ratinox

Afraid I don't know. Mine's one of the aforementioned Magic Chef models. It does have the Start/+30 seconds button though. Power setting is... um... press Time Cook and enter a time, press Power and a number from 1 to 9 for 10% to 90%, press Start. Oh, and it does have one-button "express" for 1-6 minutes.

Thanks, so does my Black & Decker.

Panasonic full power: Press Power, then enter time, then press Start. Woohoo, saved one button.

Panasonic power level 1: Press Power 10 times, enter time, press start.

No 30 second or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 minute then start.

Also multi-power programs (say 3 minutes at full 9 minutes at 20%) have to be entered every time.

But the constant power instead of alternating intervals of full power then no power is so nice.

[DNSB]

Something I miss from one of my earlier microwaves was the ability to set a timer and still use the microwave for cooking.

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Ever heard of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Internet_theory

Interesting, I've certainly encountered Google 'censoring' results - one of the reasons I stopped using Google, I now use Mojeek and Brave Search for search engines.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Interesting, I've certainly encountered Google 'censoring' results - one of the reasons I stopped using Google, I now use Mojeek and Brave Search for search engines.

in a recent discord convo (2 days ago), I wondered if Google was deliberately pushing bad results in order to promote their AI. the chat came to the conclusion that it was just a side effect of enshittified SEO results, but an extremely happy accident that they won't want to fix.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Thanks, so does my Black & Decker.

Panasonic full power: Press Power, then enter time, then press Start. Woohoo, saved one button.

Panasonic power level 1: Press Power 10 times, enter time, press start.

No 30 second or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 minute then start.

Also multi-power programs (say 3 minutes at full 9 minutes at 20%) have to be entered every time.

But the constant power instead of alternating intervals of full power then no power is so nice.

I wouldn't mind all of the buttons if they were simple to use and easy to follow. As an example the buttons arranged as follows (you press them from left to right):

- Two power buttons, High and Low. Low is 1/4 the power of high.

- A numeric keypad to set the cooking time.

- Reset button: Allows you to clear everything in case you make a mistake.

- Start button. Self explanatory.

- Open: Opens the door.

The above would make things so easy.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

I wouldn't mind all of the buttons if they were simple to use and easy to follow.

I don't mind all the buttons. I mind having to press the power button 10 times to get power level 1.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I don't mind all the buttons. I mind having to press the power button 10 times to get power level 1.

To me, that sounds like a badly designed user interface. If the microwave oven (MO) has a numeric keypad, why not just touch the "Power" button and then type in the power setting (such as "1" to get Power Level "1")?

In fact, if the MO has a numeric keypad it seems like all you'd need to do is have a button for each function on the side of the keypad (cooking time, power level), touch the button then enter the setting. Then tap "Start" to start the MO.

[Quoth]

Unless you want to program a start time, you don't need any buttons on a microwave. Give the uses of a Microwave oven, time programming is going to be rare.

Actually Microwave oven uses a magnetron and they only go at one power. The power setting simply cycles it on and off, thus 100W instead of 800W is on & off cycle of 1/8th & 7/8ths.

I saw one the other day with even a mechanical timer (like wind up kitchen timer) for cooking time.

Many have overly complicated panels of poor design. You can still buy ones with simply two knobs, power and time. Simple. Ours is electronic so the time counts down on the display. The display doubles as a clock when idle, though you can't program a start time.

<rant>
So many things such as car radio, alarm clock, cooker, recorders, etc lose all settings on a power cut. It's reasonable for safety that if there is a power cut that cooking is cancelled, but sheer greed or stupidity to not have a 5 to 10 year life easily changed backup battery for a clock and 32.768 kHz crystal instead of counting mains frequency (both together adds less than $2), and a 50c Flash/EEPROM for the car radio settings. We have had both of those for over 30 years.
</rant>

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Unless you want to program a start time, you don't need any buttons on a microwave. Give the uses of a Microwave oven, time programming is going to be rare.

I haven't seen a microwave oven (in the US) with knobs for decades.

Actually Microwave oven uses a magnetron and they only go at one power. The power setting simply cycles it on and off, thus 100W instead of 800W is on & off cycle of 1/8th & 7/8ths.

The situation for Panasonic microwave ovens with "inverter" technologiy is more complicated than that. (I know nothing about the technical details.) Although there is not a simple power reduction, it is not an on/off duty cycle. On a very low power setting there is brief elevated power draw that is well below full power, then essentially off except for fan, turntable, and lights. But this is not standard duty cycle because water just barely simmering will continue to barely simmer for minutes and minutes. For a conventional duty cycle oven, the boiling would cycle as well. For medium power settings there is a somewhat constant mid level power draw. For a 9 setting the power never is full power. Full power (10) is very close to the rating of my power meter and it continuously beeps loudly in complaint.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Unless you want to program a start time, you don't need any buttons on a microwave. Give the uses of a Microwave oven, time programming is going to be rare.

Actually Microwave oven uses a magnetron and they only go at one power. The power setting simply cycles it on and off, thus 100W instead of 800W is on & off cycle of 1/8th & 7/8ths.

I saw one the other day with even a mechanical timer (like wind up kitchen timer) for cooking time.

Many have overly complicated panels of poor design. You can still buy ones with simply two knobs, power and time. Simple. Ours is electronic so the time counts down on the display. The display doubles as a clock when idle, though you can't program a start time.

<rant>
So many things such as car radio, alarm clock, cooker, recorders, etc lose all settings on a power cut. It's reasonable for safety that if there is a power cut that cooking is cancelled, but sheer greed or stupidity to not have a 5 to 10 year life easily changed backup battery for a clock and 32.768 kHz crystal instead of counting mains frequency (both together adds less than $2), and a 50c Flash/EEPROM for the car radio settings. We have had both of those for over 30 years.
</rant>

Concerning the knob, that was what I brought up in my original comment. A rotating knob is simple and intuitive. Rotate it to the appropriate time and let it go. If you need a time delay, just add a second knob. Set the delay with the first knob and then the cooking time with the second knob.

I know about the drawback of having all settings lost if the power is cut. I have a CD/MP3 player made by Philips that is excellent but it has one drawback: When the player turns off, everything resets to the defaults. It was a minor irritant but it's worth a mention.

Also, I had a CD player in my car with an anti-theft system. The way it worked was simple: You take any CD and insert it in the CD player to become the Key CD. Then you remove the Key CD. From that point on, if the CD player loses power you have to insert the Key CD into the player to reactivate it. Only the specific CD you designated as the Key CD will work. Without the Key CD the CD player is basically inert (the only thing it will do is ask you to insert the Key CD). It was a strong deterrent for theft since all they would get is an inert piece of electronics.

I made the mistake of not taking the Key CD with me while I was moving. When I had to replace my car battery I found that my CD player would not work. I ended up having to replace the car stereo.

[DNSB]

Hmmm... was fun changing the battery in my NS-LAC05 rice cooker. It used a CR2450 battery with leads that were soldered to the motherboard. Zojirushi offered to let me ship the rice cooker to them for battery replacement if I covered the shipping and repair fee. I found a battery holder though I had to purchase 10 of them. Not a bad deal since I sold the 9 I didn't use to a local repair shop (evidently they fit several other devices). A bit of work with the soldering iron and it was back in business. According to one friend of mine who spent decades teaching English and translating tech manuals in Japan, most Japanese homes leave the rice cookers plugged in so the battery lasts for much longer time that if you only plug the cooker in to use it.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I haven't seen a microwave oven (in the US) with knobs for decades.

The microwave I bought in 1981 (USA, Sears) no longer had knobs. So yeah,
many decades!

My granddad bought one of the earliest consumer microwaves early in the 1970s. It did have knobs. Possibly no manual -- or at least he hadn't read it yet. He showed off how to cook a carrot; we all enjoyed how his guess about timing produced a very desiccated limp overdone vegetable!

On the other hand, he had created a timer operated fish food delivery system for his small fish tank. He and my dad each had a couple of patents.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I haven't seen a microwave oven (in the US) with knobs for decades.

Available widely in the city, new, today. Well known brands.

Originally Posted by j.p.s

The situation for Panasonic microwave ovens with "inverter" technologiy is more complicated than that. (I know nothing about the technical details.) Although there is not a simple power reduction, it is not an on/off duty cycle. On a very low power setting there is brief elevated power draw that is well below full power, then essentially off except for fan, turntable, and lights. But this is not standard duty cycle because water just barely simmering will continue to barely simmer for minutes and minutes. For a conventional duty cycle oven, the boiling would cycle as well. For medium power settings there is a somewhat constant mid level power draw. For a 9 setting the power never is full power. Full power (10) is very close to the rating of my power meter and it continuously beeps loudly in complaint.

No, the transformer based ones have quite fast duty cycle (giving about 2500V). If the Panasonic is using a magnetron, but inverter instead of an 800W 50Hz/60Hz transformer, then it's storing power in the input capacitors fed with recified AC mains. A Magnetron can't be varied in power. It's a diode with specially shaped anode(s) that inherently pulses at about 10 kHz. It simply doesn't go if you try to reduce the voltage for reduced power. However the huge inductance and filament (fed from HT transformer) means the transformer based ovens can't do the duty cycle at much speed, but an inverter based 2500V supply can cycle on and off faster. Likely they use a separate inverter for the filament which is low voltage and high current.

The lamp / turntable should be unaffected by power setting on transformer based ovens as it's only the transformer that's pulsed. Because the direct cathode filament is usually fed from the same transformer, that also limits cycle speed. You can hear the noise from the transformer laminations as is pulses on and off at lower power.

In the 1940s and 1950s the magnetrons used an electromagnet. Modern ones have Samarium-Cobalt or similar "super" magnets. The transformer has a weld across the laminations to limit current. That has to be cut off if repurposing the transformer for a 500W to 1kW valve (tube) based HF radio transmitter.