Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Amazon Kindle

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-19-2025, 09:29 PM   #961
slm
Fool
slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.slm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 471
Karma: 4113712
Join Date: Feb 2003
Device: Kindle: Voyage,PW1,KOA, Kobo: Clara Colour, Nook GLP, Pocketbook verse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirtel View Post
Define "most new books". There are plenty of new books sold without DRM by other retailers. Not Amazon, though.
Yes there are, but I don't think any of them are "sold"--I think they are all licenses. For example, Kobo's terms of use contains restrictions on use that restrict the use to "personal", noncommercial use. I don't think you can impose that restriction on a physical book:
the download of, and access to any Digital Content is available only to Customers and is intended only for such Customers’ personal and non-commercial use. Any other use of Digital Content downloaded or accessed from the Service is strictly prohibited.
slm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2025, 09:44 PM   #962
Sirtel
Grand Sorcerer
Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sirtel's Avatar
 
Posts: 13,571
Karma: 240526511
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Estonia
Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by slm View Post
Yes there are, but I don't think any of them are "sold"--I think they are all licenses. For example, Kobo's terms of use contains restrictions on use that restrict the use to "personal", noncommercial use. I don't think you can impose that restriction on a physical book:
the download of, and access to any Digital Content is available only to Customers and is intended only for such Customers’ personal and non-commercial use. Any other use of Digital Content downloaded or accessed from the Service is strictly prohibited.
Yeah, but it's impossible to actually enforce any of it with a DRM-free file, no matter what has been written.
Sirtel is online now   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 04-19-2025, 11:08 PM   #963
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,625
Karma: 169712392
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirtel View Post
Define "most new books". There are plenty of new books sold without DRM by other retailers. Not Amazon, though.
But even those books vendors generally state that you are purchasing a license and not actually owning the book. Since unlike Amazon, none of the other ereader brands I own have ever deleted books from my ereaders, I feel pretty safe that neither the books on my ereaders or in my calibre library will disappear on me.
DNSB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2025, 11:21 PM   #964
Sirtel
Grand Sorcerer
Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sirtel's Avatar
 
Posts: 13,571
Karma: 240526511
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Estonia
Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
But even those books vendors generally state that you are purchasing a license and not actually owning the book.
As I already said, it's not possible to actually enforce it with a DRM-free file, once you've downloaded it. Assuming you've backed it up, no one can take it away from you. Whereas with a DRMed file, if the DRM server was shut down, your file would no longer be readable.
Sirtel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 05:17 AM   #965
lkmiller
Laura
lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.lkmiller ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
lkmiller's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,543
Karma: 23597272
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: Kobo Sage, Kobo Elipsa, Nook Glowlight 4 Plus, Kindle Oasis 2
Yeah, if a purchased ebook is DRM-free or I've removed the DRM, I consider it mine. They can "pry it out of my cold, dead hands".
lkmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 04-20-2025, 06:49 AM   #966
Quoth
Still reading
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,250
Karma: 105299897
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
But even those books vendors generally state that you are purchasing a license and not actually owning the book. Since unlike Amazon, none of the other ereader brands I own have ever deleted books from my ereaders, I feel pretty safe that neither the books on my ereaders or in my calibre library will disappear on me.
Technically with paper you only buy a licence to read the content. You can do what ever you like to the physical item, but not the actual content. At the end of the day a seller or publisher can only enforce such an ebook licence in court in a civil copyright case. They have to prove damages to get compensation even if they "win". Even "winning" is nearly impossible unless they prove you copied it to the Internet for public download, or similar (free, library – like Open Library/Archive Org – or charges makes no difference).

So those "licences" on selling sites are meaningless. Regular copyright laws apply. Photocopying or scanning an entire paper book to have a personal security copy or copying an ebook file for personal use is no different.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 07:28 AM   #967
John F
Grand Sorcerer
John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John F ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,954
Karma: 70880793
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Kobo Clara 2E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirtel View Post
As I already said, it's not possible to actually enforce it with a DRM-free file, once you've downloaded it. Assuming you've backed it up, no one can take it away from you. Whereas with a DRMed file, if the DRM server was shut down, your file would no longer be readable.
Psst, the DRM'd file may not be readable, but you may be able to strip the DRM.

And there is "social" DRM.

For the the short term there is airplane mode on most readers, so no server contact (hopefully)? In the long term, if you need a new ereader you may be in trouble.

And if you stick with a "popular" reader, the pattern seems to be that the DRM will eventually be cracked.

And I recall people saying they copy the Adobe folder structure from reader to reader (so don't need to contact a server once a book was downloaded)?
John F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 07:52 AM   #968
Sirtel
Grand Sorcerer
Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sirtel's Avatar
 
Posts: 13,571
Karma: 240526511
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Estonia
Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F View Post
And I recall people saying they copy the Adobe folder structure from reader to reader (so don't need to contact a server once a book was downloaded)?
Yeah, but I guess if Adobe shut their DRM servers down, new devices would no longer support Adobe DRM at all, and so if your current device died, you'd be SOL. You could buy an older, used device, but those would not last indefinitely either.

Considering this you couldn't really say you owned the book, IMO.

Of course there's DRM removal and all that, but the question was about owning the book legally, and while DRM removal for personal use may be legal in the US (not sure about that), it certainly isn't legal in the EU.

("You" in my post is rhetorical, of course, not specifically you).
Sirtel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 08:24 AM   #969
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 74,066
Karma: 315160596
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Oasis
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmiller View Post
Yeah, if a purchased ebook is DRM-free or I've removed the DRM, I consider it mine. They can "pry it out of my cold, dead hands".
And they will. There seems to be no way to legitimately pass on "purchased" ebooks through inheritance.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 08:52 AM   #970
Sirtel
Grand Sorcerer
Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sirtel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sirtel's Avatar
 
Posts: 13,571
Karma: 240526511
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Estonia
Device: Kobo Sage & Libra 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
And they will.
They have no way to do that with any DRM-free file. If one has made one's backups, of course, and let one's heirs know about it.

It may not be legal, but this is another instance where it's just not possible to enforce the law.
Sirtel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 09:57 AM   #971
gbm
Wizard
gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gbm ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,194
Karma: 8888888
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Kobo Clara HD,Hisence Sero 7 Pro RIP, Nook STR, jetbook lite
Copyright law contains those restrictions on physical books, you may sell it, give it away but you can not make copies and sell them. With ebooks all you really need to do is follow copyright law, no need for a "license".

This is Baen's terms of use:
Quote:
Baen Books. No DRM. You own it; it’s yours.
https://createsend.com/t/d-44BF3C53E...40EF23F30FEDED

Yeah they put it at the end of the monthly newsletter. I believe those will override any "licenses" Amazon or any other retailer. All they require is that you follow copyright law.

bernie
Quote:
Originally Posted by slm View Post
Yes there are, but I don't think any of them are "sold"--I think they are all licenses. For example, Kobo's terms of use contains restrictions on use that restrict the use to "personal", noncommercial use. I don't think you can impose that restriction on a physical book:
the download of, and access to any Digital Content is available only to Customers and is intended only for such Customers’ personal and non-commercial use. Any other use of Digital Content downloaded or accessed from the Service is strictly prohibited.
gbm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2025, 12:39 PM   #972
Quoth
Still reading
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,250
Karma: 105299897
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper
Retail T&C are not always enforceable or even legal. In almost all cases they would have to take civil action and prove loss / damages. There is nothing in copyright law that stops the transfer in entirety to someone when you are dead.

"Shrink wrap" (internal )T&C are unenforceable in most countries. Copyright is what counts.

This "battle" was fought and lost by "publishers" and sellers of software*. Even transfer while you are alive is possible if there could be proof that you have no copies. They can only sue for breach of copyright. Anything else in T&C is misleading.

Loans/Subscriptions are different.


[* packages costing $10s of thousands, so the vendor risked going to court]
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2025, 04:22 PM   #973
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 79,845
Karma: 146918083
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbm View Post
Copyright law contains those restrictions on physical books, you may sell it, give it away but you can not make copies and sell them. With ebooks all you really need to do is follow copyright law, no need for a "license".

This is Baen's terms of use:


https://createsend.com/t/d-44BF3C53E...40EF23F30FEDED

Yeah they put it at the end of the monthly newsletter. I believe those will override any "licenses" Amazon or any other retailer. All they require is that you follow copyright law.

bernie
None of the links in that Newsletter actually work. So how do we know it's legit?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2025, 04:39 PM   #974
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,625
Karma: 169712392
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
None of the links in that Newsletter actually work. So how do we know it's legit?
If you trundle over to https://www.baen.com/news and click on the January, 2025 Ebook newsletter link, you get the same link as was posted.

And while the links related to the eArcs no longer work, most of the other links do so your statement that "none of the links in that Newsletter actually work" is demonstrably false.

Jon, please save your paranoia for those times that a minimal effort is not required to show that your post is well composted bovine manure.

I'm reserving mine for why they do not appear to have posted the newsletter for either ebooks or print books since January.
DNSB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2025, 04:48 PM   #975
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 79,845
Karma: 146918083
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
If you trundle over to https://www.baen.com/news and click on the January, 2025 Ebook newsletter link, you get the same link as was posted.

And while the links related to the eArcs no longer work, most of the other links do so your statement that "none of the links in that Newsletter actually work" is demonstrably false.

Jon, please save your paranoia for those times that a minimal effort is not required to show that your post is well composted bovine manure.

I'm reserving mine for why they do not appear to have posted the newsletter for either ebooks or print books since January.
All the links in the newsletter before the Baen Books section do not work. Also the first book in Baen Books section does not work.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
B&N removed download option on all books in "My Nook" library library addict General Discussions 1534 07-12-2023 10:45 AM
Could KoboCloud be modified so that it does not re-download removed items? ajkessel Kobo Developer's Corner 0 07-28-2022 03:29 PM
Kindle App for Mac Removed "Download Option" RonBurgandy Library Management 3 06-10-2016 09:58 AM
“Quick switch” library option and file transfer to Kobo Glo Ferretqueen Library Management 4 05-13-2014 08:48 AM
Whitcoulls removed Digital Editions download links talios Kobo Reader 1 07-19-2010 12:25 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.