The Reading Vent & Rant Thread

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Yes, that happens to me too. I'll realise that the story I'm 'reading' isn't actually in the book.

I don't 'see' an image of an invented page, my internal voice just carries on with the story as if I were reading.

Can you do that with "The Mystery of Edwin Drood" and transcribe your internal voice?
Then maybe "Sanditon"?

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Can you do that with "The Mystery of Edwin Drood" and transcribe your internal voice?
Then maybe "Sanditon"?

Very good!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As far as I've seen, most ebooks from major publishers that have a version number have some variant on 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 or text that reads First/Second/Third Printing date. Most self-pubbed ebooks don't bother since the author probably is not looking far enough ahead to make a new version necessary.

As for a proper place for the copyright page? Can you let us know what standard states that immediately after the title page is the one and only correct page for the copyright page? Or is this yet another confusion between IMO and it's cast in stone?

I just checked 24 physical books. 12 of the had the copyright page between the title and half title page, 6 had the copyright page after the half title page, 5 had the copyright page after the dedication page and 1 buried the copyright page at the end of the book.

The reasons to have the copyright page after the title page is because that's were it's always been in pBooks and so when you look at a preview, you get to see the copyright and if there is a version number, you get to see that. So you can see if a new version was released since the one you've downloaded.

[ownedbycats]

"that's where it's always been in pbooks" doesn't seem a very good argument for ebooks.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The reasons to have the copyright page after the title page is because that's were it's always been in pBooks and so when you look at a preview, you get to see the copyright and if there is a version number, you get to see that. So you can see if a new version was released since the one you've downloaded.

This assumes you're interested in a new version. I'm not and I don't much care where the copyright page is. I do look at the first publication date sometimes. I don't look at the version number.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

This assumes you're interested in a new version. I'm not and I don't much care where the copyright page is. I do look at the first publication date sometimes. I don't look at the version number.

I do look at the version number in case the eBook has been updated since I bought it if I have not yet edited it.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The reasons to have the copyright page after the title page is because that's were it's always been in pBooks and so when you look at a preview, you get to see the copyright and if there is a version number, you get to see that. So you can see if a new version was released since the one you've downloaded.

Jon, did you read my message? Did you notice that I checked 24 pbooks and the copyright page while commonly found after the titlepage was not in that location in 12 of the books.

[Gardenman]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I didn't even know people do that. I've never generated any text in my dreams.

Me either

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Some eBooks have a version number in the copyright and some don't. I wish all publishers did that. And I wish all copyright was in the proper place after the title page.

By "proper" you mean your "preferred" position in the book. I'd prefer everything except the cover, and maybe a forward, go to the end of the book. Why clutter the beginning of a book with stuff we don't need? Just because that was often used for paper books doesn't mean that ebooks need to follow the same format.

Cover. Title Page. Chapter 1 -> The End. TOC. Other stuff, if they must.

We don't need the list of all the author's other books. We don't need meaningless blurbs from 14 different celebrity authors who spent 5 minutes skimming the book (or worse, some other book by the author). We don't need to see the publisher's list of "you might like ...." advertisements. We don't need a preview of the next book in a series, or any other immediately outdated "coming soon" junk. I've seen all of these (except the preview chapters) included before the actual content in some books. If they want to include that stuff, put it in the back and add it to the bookmarks. I'd rather not have any of it.

I've seen previews where they only get 5 paragraphs into the actual content before cutting off because they have so much unnecessary stuff at the front of the book. Or files that are only 75% book and 25% junk, either at the front or back, because they add so much filler.

I understand why some of those things were included with paper books and before the internet, but doing things just because "that's how we've always done them" is silly.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

By "proper" you mean your "preferred" position in the book. I'd prefer everything except the cover, and maybe a forward, go to the end of the book. Why clutter the beginning of a book with stuff we don't need? Just because that was often used for paper books doesn't mean that ebooks need to follow the same format.

Cover. Title Page. Chapter 1 -> The End. TOC. Other stuff, if they must.

We don't need the list of all the author's other books. We don't need meaningless blurbs from 14 different celebrity authors who spent 5 minutes skimming the book (or worse, some other book by the author). We don't need to see the publisher's list of "you might like ...." advertisements. We don't need a preview of the next book in a series, or any other immediately outdated "coming soon" junk. I've seen all of these (except the preview chapters) included before the actual content in some books. If they want to include that stuff, put it in the back and add it to the bookmarks. I'd rather not have any of it.

I've seen previews where they only get 5 paragraphs into the actual content before cutting off because they have so much unnecessary stuff at the front of the book. Or files that are only 75% book and 25% junk, either at the front or back, because they add so much filler.

I understand why some of those things were included with paper books and before the internet, but doing things just because "that's how we've always done them" is silly.

I agree with all of this. That's why I delete all the filler stuff from my ebooks. Ofc it would be much better if it wasn't put in in the first place. But I guess we'll never see an ebook without any ads at all.

[Solitaire1]

I do find it irritating that an author will put a chapter or two a book at the end of an ebook. To me, a better way to do an "Other books by this author..." is to put it at the end of the book with just the name of the book and (maybe) a small blurb about each book. Make each title of the book a link so that the Reader go to them if he/she desires.

Concerning the Copyright Page, which not just make it standard to be the third page of an ebook (after the Cover and the Title Page and before the Table of Contents)?

As far as Version Numbers go, from what I understand the reason for the string of numbers is so that all that needs to be done with the original copyright page is remove the lower version numbers without the need to recreate the entire page (the book is a third version, so "1" had been erased for the second version, and "2" will be erased for the third version). However, with ebooks this should not be needed since they could just write "3rd Version" for the third version of an ebook.

Compare that to the way that comic books do it. In the miniseries Identity Crisis the original printing of the first issue sold out. For each subsequent printing they changed the cover, going from black & white (second printing), "shattered" picture cover (third printing), red background (fourth printing), and pencil sketch (Diamond Retailer Edition). Due to the high number of sales of the series, each issue had at least two printings, each with varied covers.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

I do find it irritating that an author will put a chapter or two a book at the end of an ebook. To me, a better way to do an "Other books by this author..." is to put it at the end of the book with just the name of the book and (maybe) a small blurb about each book. Make each title of the book a link so that the Reader go to them if he/she desires.

That's still totally unnecessary filler to me. I'm perfectly capable of finding the other books myself if I want to. Any and all stuff that's not the story I'm currently reading has to go (things like appendixes, glossaries, or historical notes stay).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Jon, did you read my message? Did you notice that I checked 24 pbooks and the copyright page while commonly found after the titlepage was not in that location in 12 of the books.

The copyright page are in the correct place sometimes and not others.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

By "proper" you mean your "preferred" position in the book. I'd prefer everything except the cover, and maybe a forward, go to the end of the book. Why clutter the beginning of a book with stuff we don't need? Just because that was often used for paper books doesn't mean that ebooks need to follow the same format.

Cover. Title Page. Chapter 1 -> The End. TOC. Other stuff, if they must.

Would you mind if all the chapters were in a random order instead of where they belong? It's the same with the copyright page. It should be after the title page just like chapters should be in order.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I agree with all of this. That's why I delete all the filler stuff from my ebooks. Ofc it would be much better if it wasn't put in in the first place. But I guess we'll never see an ebook without any ads at all.

If I'm reading a book in a series and I like it enough I'll seek out the next book in the series. I don't need any previews or adverts for the any of the other books in the series. I also don't need a list of the author's books or review blurbs. And in Penguin eBooks, I don't need the embedded fonts they always put in and I don't need the advert page that goes with the fonts or the extra CSS file that sometimes is there with the advert page.

There can be a lot of excess that we don't need. That can be why a novella can be larger then some novels.