It is done, Amazon account deletion request sent

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Graham44

But surely there in lies the danger - and don't get me wrong I am just as guilty of this - what happens when we all rely on Amazon too much, to the detriment of their rivals, who then go out of business, Amazon has the monopoly and then start to jack up their prices?

I don't worry about things like that. The notion that Amazon could wipe out all other online retail competition and then charge whatever they want seems a bit fantastical to me. They haven't even been able to wipe out all ebook competition, so cornering the online retail market doesn't really seem very likely to me. Plus I don't really care. I don't buy what I can't afford. And my Amazon expenditures are over 90% wants, very little needs.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Some interesting points. I can see lots used to shop at other retailers but have moved to Amazon because of cost and convenience.

But surely there in lies the danger - and don't get me wrong I am just as guilty of this - what happens when we all rely on Amazon too much, to the detriment of their rivals, who then go out of business, Amazon has the monopoly and then start to jack up their prices?

Now maybe this won't happen completely, Amazon has been around a while now and they have driven a lot of businesses out of business but they still have plenty of rivals as well. But if it did then we could be in real trouble (it's happened to a degree in the UK, Amazon have destroyed the high street bookstores here, very few left compared to pre-Amazon)

I do shop where I can get what I want cheaper. That's not always Amazon. Heck, I bought some pads for my headphones from Japan and they came by Fedex no problem and very fast delivery. I've recently bought a couple of items from AliExpress that is cheaper then on Amazon. Sure the delivery will take longer, but it's not stuff I need right away. They should be here next week.

[Ebookus]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't worry about things like that. The notion that Amazon could wipe out all other online retail competition and then charge whatever they want seems a bit fantastical to me. They haven't even been able to wipe out all ebook competition, so cornering the online retail market doesn't really seem very likely to me. Plus I don't really care. I don't buy what I can't afford. And my Amazon expenditures are over 90% wants, very little needs.

But as a monopolist (if you are smart) you don't really want to completely wipe out all competition. That just risks the government getting involved and breaking you into smaller pieces. What you really want to do is keep some small players around so when anyone comes asking you can point and say, see I have competitors. In some cases (cough cough Google) you are even incentivised to pay your "competitors" to stay in business. If you find that "fantastical", well you clearly are living in Wonderland.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Ebookus

But as a monopolist (if you are smart) you don't really want to completely wipe out all competition. That just risks the government getting involved and breaking you into smaller pieces. What you really want to do is keep some small players around so when anyone comes asking you can point and say, see I have competitors. In some cases (cough cough Google) you are even incentivised to pay your "competitors" to stay in business. If you find that "fantastical", well you clearly are living in Wonderland.

I understand that a lot folks today like to play armchair antitrust legal expert. But I choose to leave that sort of thing to the real ones. It's none of my concern.

[Ebookus]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I understand that a lot folks today like to play armchair antitrust legal expert. But I choose to leave that sort of thing to the real ones. It's none of my concern.

Man, what are you on about? “On August 5, 2024, Judge Amit Mehta ruled that Google acted illegally to maintain a monopoly in online search” The Department of Justice successfully sued and won the case. If you still want to be wilfully ignorant, well… that’s on you.

[haertig]

I will buy stuff from Amazon. I look at price/convenience. It used to be that Amazon was almost always cheaper than buying direct from the manufacturer. But not so much anymore. So unless the direct-from-manufacturer price (delivered) is markedly above Amazon's price, I will buy from the manufacturer. Ditto for other retailers. But Amazon does indeed often beat the other retailers prices. But not always.

I also look at convenience. I try to group up all my drives around town to save on fuel costs and time. That means that I usually put something to buy "on my list" and don't go out to buy it for several days - when I have enough other errands to run to make a trip worthwhile. But I do look at Amazon and if I find that their delivered price is lower than the local price, and they will get it to me same day, then why not buy it from Amazon?

We have several huge Amazon distribution centers near me and "same day" delivery is what I've come to expect. If not that, my order is typically here the next day. I have had a couple of orders where total elapsed time between placing the order and finding it on my doorstep is less than four hours. It's insane how fast stuff gets to me.

Another reason to buy from Amazon is their returns. If I am at all suspicious of an item (after reading user reviews), my best bet is to buy it from Amazon where I can return it for free if it turns out to be problematic. On the flip side of the coin, a good reason not to buy from Amazon are for perishable items. Like batteries - I don't want something that has been setting on a shelf, maybe for years, being offered by a third party seller. It is extremely rare for me to buy anything from a third party seller, except if that item is "stocked and shipped by Amazon". Because that opens up the quick shipping and free returns. Still, batteries are generally a no-no for me. Except sometimes for that rare one used by only one device that I own, the battery is cheap, and that device is rarely used in the first place. Sometimes I will make an exception and "take my chances" ordering a battery from Amazon for it.

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by haertig

I also look at convenience. I try to group up all my drives around town to save on fuel costs and time. That means that I usually put something to buy "on my list" and don't go out to buy it for several days - when I have enough other errands to run to make a trip worthwhile. But I do look at Amazon and if I find that their delivered price is lower than the local price, and they will get it to me same day, then why not buy it from Amazon?

To me that's not a good thing, if they can source it, pack it, ship it from a central warehouse to a distribution centre, pay to run the trucks and pay all the staff involved and it's still lower, how are they making a profit? That would indicate to me there are other negative costs involved, not monetary, usually extremely bad working conditions for staff.

Originally Posted by haertig

We have several huge Amazon distribution centers near me and "same day" delivery is what I've come to expect. If not that, my order is typically here the next day. I have had a couple of orders where total elapsed time between placing the order and finding it on my doorstep is less than four hours. It's insane how fast stuff gets to me.

Do we need stuff that fast though? Again what costs are involved and why have we all become (me included) a society that expects things immediately? why can't we wait anymore?

I've been looking at Amazon, it's business practices, accusations leveled at it and just all round how it operates as a business over the last few days, just out of curiosity really, spurred on by this conversation, and I have to say even though it was not the reason I shut my account down, looking into them more I'm glad I have shut it down now.

However I don't want to make out I'm some champion for ethical business, I am not, I knew Amazon was a bad employer for a long time but still chose to use them, I only dumped Amazon when their business practices effected me personally, so I'm no better than the next person.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Ebookus

Man, what are you on about? “On August 5, 2024, Judge Amit Mehta ruled that Google acted illegally to maintain a monopoly in online search” The Department of Justice successfully sued and won the case. If you still want to be wilfully ignorant, well… that’s on you.

Ummm. This is an Amazon thread. You were the one "on about" Google for some reason or another. I'm not being wilfully ignorant, I'm just sticking to the topic of Amazon. But if you want to talk about Google and the DOJ, you go right ahead. Just leave me out of it. I don't care about their anti-trust issues either. I don't care or worry about monopolies or antitrust. Period. That's not ignorance on my part. The word you're looking for is "indifference."

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Graham44

To me that's not a good thing, if they can source it, pack it, ship it from a central warehouse to a distribution centre, pay to run the trucks and pay all the staff involved and it's still lower, how are they making a profit? That would indicate to me there are other negative costs involved, not monetary, usually extremely bad working conditions for staff.

Or, it could just indicate how they are using the $125 (or whatever the cost is these days - mine's on autopay) that I pay them yearly for a Prime membership. I highly doubt that Amazon is purposely operating at a loss. If the working conditions are so bad, employees would leave. There are lots of jobs in the area just begging to hire workers.

Do we need stuff that fast though? Again what costs are involved and why have we all become (me included) a society that expects things immediately? why can't we wait anymore?

Who said I expect things immediately? Just because they get here that fast does not mean that I demand that. But I am accepting and appreciative of it when it happens. Do you want me to add a note to my orders telling them to slow down the delivery because they're doing too good of a job at it and some people think this is because they're being harmful in some way?

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by haertig

Or, it could just indicate how they are using the $125 (or whatever the cost is these days - mine's on autopay) that I pay them yearly for a Prime membership. I highly doubt that Amazon is purposely operating at a loss. If the working conditions are so bad, employees would leave. There are lots of jobs in the area just begging to hire workers.



Who said I expect things immediately? Just because they get here that fast does not mean that I demand that. But I am accepting and appreciative of it when it happens. Do you want me to add a note to my orders telling them to slow down the delivery because they're doing too good of a job at it and some people think this is because they're being harmful in some way?

Nope not at all, as I've said many times we all have different priorities and things that are important to us when it comes to dealing with businesses. Neither views are right or wrong, just different priorities

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by haertig

Or, it could just indicate how they are using the $125 (or whatever the cost is these days - mine's on autopay) that I pay them yearly for a Prime membership. I highly doubt that Amazon is purposely operating at a loss. If the working conditions are so bad, employees would leave. There are lots of jobs in the area just begging to hire workers.



Who said I expect things immediately? Just because they get here that fast does not mean that I demand that. But I am accepting and appreciative of it when it happens. Do you want me to add a note to my orders telling them to slow down the delivery because they're doing too good of a job at it and some people think this is because they're being harmful in some way?

Amazon warehouses supposedly have a stupidly high turnover rate (or did), like 150%. People don't seem to stick around. They also straight up mysteriously closed all the Quebec warehouses after one voted to unionize. Not at all related though, so they claim. Don't think they have the best labor practices.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Amazon warehouses supposedly have a stupidly high turnover rate (or did), like 150%. People don't seem to stick around. They also straight up mysteriously closed all the Quebec warehouses after one voted to unionize. Not at all related though, so they claim. Don't think they have the best labor practices.

Some of the warehouses actually started running out of prospective employees for the town they were in, because they had such a high turn over that they literally hired everyone that would even consider applying for Amazon.

[John F]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Amazon warehouses supposedly have a stupidly high turnover rate (or did), like 150%. People don't seem to stick around. They also straight up mysteriously closed all the Quebec warehouses after one voted to unionize. Not at all related though, so they claim. Don't think they have the best labor practices.

And 100% is seasonal?

[haertig]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

Amazon warehouses supposedly have a stupidly high turnover rate (or did), like 150%

Does that mean that for every person that comes to work for Amazon, 1-½ people leave?

That IS a stupidly high number. I wonder who came up with it? Certainly not an employee. Because with numbers like that, Amazon wouldn't have any employees. That's probably how they do such fast deliveries. No humans there, just robots. Makes sense.

[DNSB]

It means that a location that has 1000 employees will cycle though 1500 employees in a year (or whatever length of time the cycle is measured for. Some employees may stay for years, others may not make it past weeks. It means that over a year, you will need to hire a lot more employees than that actual number working at any one time to keep those numbers up.

Say you have 1000 employees with 200 of them leaving every month. Over a year, you would have to hire 2400 employees to keep that number of active employees at 1000.

OTOH, I used to think some of the stories about washroom visits being monitored were mostly stories. Sadly, one acquaintance of mine has a son who started working for Amazon a while back and says that is quite a bit of truth in both the turnover and monitoring. Of the ~740 employees who were there when he was hired, ~180 remain, the other 560 have been replaced, often multiple times.

One of the office workers whom he was friends hung in through her pregnancy and complaints about her using the washroom too often before going on maternity/parental leave. She spent the last 10 weeks of her leave looking for another job (the first 40 weeks (15 weeks maternity and 25 weeks parental) were devoted to taking care of their daughter, her spouse took 5 weeks of the 40 weeks standard parental leave to stay home and help her recover from the birth). Quick explanation for non-Canadians, the birth parent gets 15 weeks maternity leave, the parents get 40 weeks of standard parental leave to split with a maximum of 35 weeks for one parent. There is also an extended parental leave which pays less. Her new job pays more than Amazon did and management has much lighter handed management style.