Amazon has removed Download & Transfer option

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

KU does not get downloaded with the mass download since KU loans are not eligible for Download & Transfer via USB. Since I don't get Amazon books from libraries (no libraries outside the USA do Amazon format ebooks), I can't say if they were D&T eligible.

For anyone reading this after 26-Feb-2025, substitute "were not eligible" for "are not eligible" in the first sentence.

There is the K4PC and Kindle downloads. I've downloaded to my Kindle Touch. So if I had any KU books, they'd most likely get lost and end up getting kept.

[Graham44]

The whole DRM thing is a complete nightmare IMO. Don't get me wrong I absolutely agree that an author/ artist/ producer etc should get paid when someone benefits by consuming their product, but before digital downloads it was so much easier to manage for the average Joe.

Quoth mentions DVD's, VHS etc DRM was never really an issue with them as hardly anyone would have tried to copy them, because you didn't need to, you bought them and you could use them wherever you wanted and lend them or pass them on to whoever you wanted. There was really no advantage to trying to get around the copyright on them as you wouldn't really be gaining anything of significance but you would be breaking the law.

Now I'm not technologically minded but to me instead of this DRM system they have now where you are severely restricted in use I can't see why they couldn't have come up with a system where you have say an e-book file that you've bought but instead of essentially 'copying' that file to an ereader (which I guess is kind of what happens when yo transfer a book to an ereader) the original file is moved to the ereader with a tag left in the originating file - so say you have Stephen Kings IT (my all time fave book) in Calibre and you want to read it on your Kindle, when you send it to your Kindle the original file is moved from your Calibre library and onto your Kindle - the file could leave an indexing file in Calibre so when you move it back it ends up in the same location in Calibre and any tags etc aren't lost. A system like that would allow you to read a book on any device you wish and even lend it to someone but you could only ever do one thing at a time as there would only ever be one copy of the book in existence for you, so if you sold it to someone say you would no longer have the file and if you wanted to read it you would have to buy it again. I guess what I’m saying in a long winded way is surely a copyright system that allows you to move a file wherever you want but doesn’t allow you to copy a file would be a better way to go about protecting ebooks?

Perhaps this is too simplistic a view and I missing something obvious (as I say Im not technologically minded) but its a thought

[Sirtel]

But how can copying a file be made impossible? I'm not sure it can, hence DRM (to limit your use of any unauthorized copies). Besides, what if I drop my ereader and it dies, and I lose the file that's on it? And if my computer died, I'd lose my entire library, because with your solution I would have no backup at all.

I agree DRM is a poor solution, but currently there's no alternative for library/subscription ebooks, other than restrict them to proprietary apps only (IMO much worse than DRM).

As for purchases, there should not be any DRM on them. But try and tell that to the publishers... or to Amazon.

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

But how can copying a file be made impossible? I'm not sure it can, hence DRM (to limit your use of any unauthorized copies).

That's what I honestly don't know, as I say I'm not technologically minded so I don't know how the inner gubbings of computers/ computer files etc work

But theres lots of very brainy people out there, if they can come up with s***e like AI surely they could come up with a file that can be transferred but not copied. Perhaps it's not so much about copyright protection but more about control?

However I don't want to get completely off topic, I was just musing

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Graham44

But theres lots of very brainy people out there, if they can come up with s***e like AI surely they could come up with a file that can be transferred but not copied. Perhaps it's not so much about copyright protection but more about control?

That would be a very, very bad idea IMO - it would mean one cannot make any backup copies of one's books, so if your ereader or computer dies, you'll lose your files.

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

That would be a very, very bad idea IMO - it would mean one cannot make any backup copies of one's books, so if your ereader or computer dies, you'll lose your files.

Hmm that's true, I didn't think of that!

There goes my good idea that could have benefited mankind lol

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Hmm that's true, I didn't think of that!

There goes my good idea that could have benefited mankind lol

I'm sure that's the way with most good ideas.

[Ma'am-I-Am]

Originally Posted by Graham44

DVD's, VHS etc DRM was never really an issue with them as hardly anyone would have tried to copy them

Oh, my sweet summer child.
One could rent a VHS player for US$1.00, hook a cable to your own VHS, and copy whatever you rented.

[Timboli]

Almost 10am here on the 26th, and the Download & transfer via USB option is still working. We are a bit ahead of the USA though, and I use the US Amazon Kindle store.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by Ma'am-I-Am

Oh, my sweet summer child.
One could rent a VHS player for US$1.00, hook a cable to your own VHS, and copy whatever you rented.

Next you're going to tell me they cooked up some system to scramble the video of the recording VCR and call it something dumb like Macrovision.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Quoth mentions DVD's, VHS etc DRM was never really an issue with them as hardly anyone would have tried to copy them, because you didn't need to, you bought them and you could use them wherever you wanted and lend them or pass them on to whoever you wanted. There was really no advantage to trying to get around the copyright on them as you wouldn't really be gaining anything of significance but you would be breaking the law.

I don't know where he got his facts from, but it is definitely not the case when it comes to DVDs, which were widely copied and still are.

VHS was even copied a lot, but it was a poorer copy unlike the perfect DVD copy, and each time you copied a VHS tape copy, it just degraded worse, so rarely worth it unless you were almost desperate. That said, the price of a movie on VHS tape was often very expensive, so there was the incentive right there, especially with hired or borrowed tapes. Many folk though, would copy straight from the free-to-air TV broadcasts of a movie etc, and then edit out the advert breaks.

Toward the end of VHS life, they did add a level of DRM in the form of a signal on the tape (Macrovision) which prevented the copy being played properly.

Many if not most DVD's have DRM, though that was easy enough to get around, with lots of programs able to do so.

Blu-rays have always been harder to copy, and remain so ... at least with free programs, though not impossible.

As you mention later, it has become more about control though, though that is certainly tied to copyright. We are moving to a situation, where they don't want us to own any media. They want to control when and where we watch it ... to a large degree anyway.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Timboli

Almost 10am here on the 26th, and the Download & transfer via USB option is still working. We are a bit ahead of the USA though, and I use the US Amazon Kindle store.

amazon announced times for server related events usually mean US Pacific Time.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Timboli

We are moving to a situation, where they don't want us to own any media. They want to control when and where we watch it ... to a large degree anyway.

Yeah. And now it's moving from movies and music to ebooks.

I don't much care about movies and TV series being subscription-based, as I don't watch them often. Occasionally I want to watch something specific and I subscribe to watch it, maybe watch a few other things as well and then end the subscription afterwards. But as to ebooks, there I must own the things. I absolutely DO NOT want to read borrowed or rented stuff. I buy the books and I want to be able to do with my purchases as I see fit. And no, I'm not going back to paper. If worse comes to worst and any DRM becomes unbreakable, I'll just stop buying any more books and read only what I already have.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Quoth mentions DVD's, VHS etc DRM was never really an issue with them as hardly anyone would have tried to copy them, because you didn't need to, you bought them and you could use them wherever you wanted and lend them or pass them on to whoever you wanted.

You want to watch a DVD on your computer? And you run Linux? Better learn how to get around the DRM.

Your DVD player finally gave up the ghost and you want to rip your DVD's into MP4 files to stream from your home Plex server to your TV? Better learn how to get around the DRM.

[Loosheesh]

Originally Posted by haertig

I have always downloaded my Amazon book purchases immediately after buying them. So I had no urgent need to go download everything (already done, at purchase time).

This is me as well, thankfully. Tonight, I scrolled through 10 pages (out of 114) looking for updates, and found about 5, and stopped. I'm too lazy to download anything, and I really don't care anyway. Through the years, I'd completely forgotten about Amazon updates (y'all reminded me ) and I'll just go back to forgetting about them. I'm more concerned with where I'll buy books going forward.