Firmware 5.0.175773

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by Marek

You can see some relevant issues and pull requests at the bottom of the readme here

Thanks. As I said above, this is not a "now" problem for me, it was somehing that I worried about for the future. Learning that KOReader is already working, to whatever extent, on 5.x assuaged most of my fears. I'm sure that by the time it IS a "now" issue for me, the situation will be even more thoroughly in hand

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by sherman

I have a theory that Kobo have probably switched to QtWebEngine from the old QtWebKit. It's a Chromium based renderer instead of the ancient webkit.

I can't say that for certain without investigating Nickel though.

If that's the case, shouldn't newer CSS features such as 'initial-letter' be working?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Falkor

If that's the case, shouldn't newer CSS features such as 'initial-letter' be working?

Given the only use I've seen for 'initial-letter' has been in combination with the pseudo-selector ::first-letter for drop caps and my personal opinion is that drop caps are, at best, useless—perhaps, you have noticed that very often drop caps only work over a limited range of font sizes?—and should never be used unless you really want to emulate an illustrated manuscript. The only time I formatted an illustrated manuscript, I found that using images was the best looking way to go.

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Given the only use I've seen for 'initial-letter' has been in combination with the pseudo-selector ::first-letter for drop caps and my personal opinion is that drop caps are, at best, useless—perhaps, you have noticed that very often drop caps only work over a limited range of font sizes?—and should never be used unless you really want to emulate an illustrated manuscript. The only time I formatted an illustrated manuscript, I found that using images was the best looking way to go.

My main problem with drop caps is that the resuslts are pretty much random. I can make the size of the drop cap depend on the size of the text, but the line height is also variable, so the results will vary. Also, the user may set a different font, which may alter the placement of the drop cap further.

'Initial-letter' fixes these issues. I set it to 3 lines high and the drop cap will sit on the base line of the third line, easy as that.

Drop caps do get used pretty often and this works much better than the workarounds people have to use for ePub2.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

I've been reading the last few posts of this thread with some alarm for similar reasons. I'm worried about what any such shift would mean for KOReader, especially since the verdict on the actual rendering in 5.x is indeed mixed

But you don't have to go to 5.x if you don't want to should Kobo release 5.x for other then Tolino.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Falkor

My main problem with drop caps is that the resuslts are pretty much random. I can make the size of the drop cap depend on the size of the text, but the line height is also variable, so the results will vary. Also, the user may set a different font, which may alter the placement of the drop cap further.

'Initial-letter' fixes these issues. I set it to 3 lines high and the drop cap will sit on the base line of the third line, easy as that.

Drop caps do get used pretty often and this works much better than the workarounds people have to use for ePub2.

Initial-letter will not fix drop cap issues. It's the same code other then it's not a span.

As for drop caps being used pretty often, not so. And for those times I do find drop caps or larger letter used, I drop them as they are useless.

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Initial-letter will not fix drop cap issues. It's the same code other then it's not a span.

But it does! I thought that was the entire point of this CSS property? In Calibre, Sigil and Thorium drop caps with initial-letter are always perfectly placed, no matter how the line height or font size is set.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Falkor

But it does! I thought that was the entire point of this CSS property? In Calibre, Sigil and Thorium drop caps with initial-letter are always perfectly placed, no matter how the line height or font size is set.

Nope. That's not what initial-letter is for. Initial letter is for styling the initial letter without the need for a span.

[sherman]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Nope. That's not what initial-letter is for. Initial letter is for styling the initial letter without the need for a span.

John, you're mixing first-letter with initial-letter.


::first-letter is the selector that allows styling without the span.


initial-letter is a relatively new CSS option (It was Webkit/Safari only for a long time) that allows dropcaps. Eg:

.two::first-letter {
  initial-letter: 2; /* Initial letter occupies 2 lines */
}

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by sherman

John, you're mixing first-letter with initial-letter.


::first-letter is the selector that allows styling without the span.


initial-letter is a relatively new CSS option (It was Webkit/Safari only for a long time) that allows dropcaps. Eg:

.two::first-letter {
  initial-letter: 2; /* Initial letter occupies 2 lines */
}

Relatively new meaning it may not work in most cases,

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Relatively new meaning it may not work in most cases,

Which is a bummer, as it's a feature commonly used in books. If Calibre, Sigil and Thorium can make it work, why can't manufacturers make it work on the devices?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Falkor

Which is a bummer, as it's a feature commonly used in books. If Calibre, Sigil and Thorium can make it work, why can't manufacturers make it work on the devices?

1. Kindle doesn't use epub directly at all (majority). Most actual ereaders have limited to no support for epub3.

2. Elephant in room. It's publisher ego and reduces readability.

3. It's not at all needed.

4. Plenty of paper books don't do it with no loss of sales.

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by Quoth

1. Kindle doesn't use epub directly at all (majority). Most actual ereaders have limited to no support for epub3.

2. Elephant in room. It's publisher ego and reduces readability.

3. It's not at all needed.

4. Plenty of paper books don't do it with no loss of sales.

1. I don't know if initial-letter is in the epub3 spec. Yet plenty of software supports it.

2. Decorative initials have been around for many centuries and all of a sudden they have become "publisher ego"?

3. Plenty of ePubs do use drop caps. They're not exactly uncommon. So yes, I think this feature is needed.

4. Using or not using drop caps is a choice. Even if you don't agree when someone chooses to set a book with drop caps, the initial-letter property could make it easier to remove them, because it's just one setting that needs to be overriden. That could be a feature of the eReader device or software. Although I guess it may be a better approach to simply ignore ::first-letter entirely…

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Falkor

1. I don't know if initial-letter is in the epub3 spec. Yet plenty of software supports it.

2. Decorative initials have been around for many centuries and all of a sudden they have become "publisher ego"?

3. Plenty of ePubs do use drop caps. They're not exactly uncommon. So yes, I think this feature is needed.

4. Using or not using drop caps is a choice. Even if you don't agree when someone chooses to set a book with drop caps, the initial-letter property could make it easier to remove them, because it's just one setting that needs to be overriden. That could be a feature of the eReader device or software. Although I guess it may be a better approach to simply ignore ::first-letter entirely…

Most ePub that I have seen do not use large first letter or drop cap.

[Wegmann]

Unfortunately my shine5 simply ignores the update.tar from notmareks DowngradePackages folder. The version of the software remains 5.0.175773.