The Technology Vent and Rant Thread

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The cloud is nothing but a server accessible on the Internet. That's all it is. It's not a cloud. Even if you call it the cloud, you aren't correct. You don't ever store anything in a real cloud.

"Cloud" is a shorthand for "elastic cloud", a shorthand which has grown to vastly surpass it's original usage. Elastic clouds are computing infrastructure designed to readily expand and contract as usage needs require -- resembling actual clouds as they accumulate and release water droplets. Cloud infrastructures are commonly seen as being publicly hosted and accessed via the Internet but they can be privately hosted as well. In fact, the earliest elastic clouds were privately hosted.

Thus "the cloud" is neither a single server nor does it require the Internet.

[madelonw]

I sure do. I started my career as an IT Support Specialist, at Yale University, in 1988 - the days of DOS and Word Perfect. I was gobsmacked by how many end users only knew one command - WP enter. They did everything within that Word Perfect shell. You could run DOS and Word Perfect off of floppy discs if you had two disc drives in your computer. Ahhh... those were the days.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You don't ever store anything in a real cloud.

Water is stored in a real cloud.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A folder is what's used in your email program. It's an organizing structure that's not part of the file system. A directory is part of the filesystem. That's the difference.

It's because someone designed the icon for a directory to look like a manila folder is why the name folder is being incorrectly used.

A directory is not a folder. It never has been.

Jon, you are so very, very wrong.

When I look back to Byte magazine, April, 1982 (vol 7 #4) which had an article on the design of the Xerox Star GUI, it refers to putting documents into folders or file drawers with the icon indeed looking like a manila folder. See the attached image and the pdf of the Byte article for more information.

[Martinoptic]

↑ Thank you for the interesting article. I didn’t realise that WIMP GUIs were that old! And I am older!

[BetterRed]

Older

Xerox was first with folders, but not the Star - the Alto in the '70s ==>> https://crm.org/articles/xerox-parc-...origins-of-gui

BR

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Jon, you are so very, very wrong.

When I look back to Byte magazine, April, 1982 (vol 7 #4) which had an article on the design of the Xerox Star GUI, it refers to putting documents into folders or file drawers with the icon indeed looking like a manila folder. See the attached image and the pdf of the Byte article for more information.

Exactly. A manila folder icon. Which is where the name folder came from even. A folder is inside of a program for storage such as your email program.A directory is created in the filesystem.

For example,, on a Windows computer, Windows is a directory, not a folder.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Exactly. A manila folder icon. Which is where the name folder came from even. A folder is inside of a program for storage such as your email program.A directory is created in the filesystem.

For example,, on a Windows computer, Windows is a directory, not a folder.

We are talking quite a lot before Windows. Windows calling it directory doesn't make it "THE TRUTH".

[BetterRed]

If we're going to be pedantic it's not Windows that has directories, it's the file system ==>> Directory Management - Win32 apps | Microsoft Learn

I use the word 'folder' when I'm communicating in the context of Windows, and 'directory' when I'm communicating in the context of a file System, e.g. NTFS, HPFS, APFS etc.

When we got our copy of version 2.1 of Windows in May 1988, one of the first things we noticed was that "Windows Explorer" used what was by then a 10+ year old de-facto standard 'folder icon' to represent directories on local DOS disks. We'd seen this on Star, and the Apple Lisa we had in our lab.

Factlet: we weren't allowed to have a Star due to US export restrictions, hence the Lisa. This was in the UK, our joke was: "They'll let you have their nukes but not their boat-anchors."

BR

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

We are talking quite a lot before Windows. Windows calling it directory doesn't make it "THE TRUTH".

Not Windows the OS, Windows the directory. Windows & Users are two directories every Windows computer has.

[ownedbycats]

If you hit the wrong key, Vivaldi doesn't ask to confirm before deleting a download. Even if the download is in-progress and has been going on over an hour.

[Renate]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Even if the download is in-progress and has been going on over an hour.

Hey, it sounds like you have my internet!

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Exactly. A manila folder icon. Which is where the name folder came from even. A folder is inside of a program for storage such as your email program.A directory is created in the filesystem.

I can't speak to your email program but mine does not have folders. It displays IMAP folders which are constructs within Dovecot which is my IMAP server. Each of these IMAP folder constructs is... a directory on the filesystem. So for my email program, folders and directories are the same thing.

For example, on a Windows computer, Windows is a directory, not a folder.

If by "Windows is a directory" you mean "C:\Windows"? When I type "dir C:\" in a command shell I see C:\Windows as a line of text. When I open File Explorer I see C:\Windows as a manilla folder icon. When I look inside these visual representations I see the same files. Again, looks to me like folders and directories are the same thing.

Not Windows the OS, Windows the directory. Windows & Users are two directories every Windows computer has.

What I just wrote about C:\Windows applies fully to C:\Users.

If it walks like a directory and quacks like a folder, it's probably a duck.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

When we got our copy of version 2.1 of Windows in May 1988, one of the first things we noticed was that "Windows Explorer" used what was by then a 10+ year old de-facto standard 'folder icon' to represent directories on local DOS disks. We'd seen this on Star, and the Apple Lisa we had in our lab.

Pedantically, "Windows Explorer" was first on Windows 95.
Windows 2.x to 3.x, Chinese 4.x, NT 3.x all had "File Manager", which usefully could have sub-windows. NT 4.0 had both "File Manager" and "Windows Explorer".

I just added "Total Commander" to my Android things because Google Files is garbage; it even seems to "unpack" the sub-folders/directories and then you don't know where the file really is!.
Also Main internal & SD card are at the bottom of the list of "locations".

I've found "Total Commander" about x20 or more faster on WiFi to my Samba share (LAN plugin) than MTP or ADB USB file transfer. The dual window feature is handy on a tablet.a

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by ratinox

If by "Windows is a directory" you mean "C:\Windows"? When I type "dir C:\" in a command shell I see C:\Windows as a line of text. When I open File Explorer I see C:\Windows as a manilla folder icon. When I look inside these visual representations I see the same files. Again, looks to me like folders and directories are the same thing.

If it walks like a directory and quacks like a folder, it's probably a duck.

Mostly they are.

Thunderbird
Email with local storage is an exception. Creating a user account also creates a directory in that email user's directory on the system. But the visible folders don't correspond to that except that they may or may not be in those directories. POP3 accounts can share folders.
By default IMAP is not local, though Thunderbird can make offline copies, and the folders may or may not be real sub-directories on the email server.

So mostly folders = directories for almost all applications and for all sane file managers and normal file systems.