Amazon and DRM changes

[JSWolf]

I do have a method that works perfectly.

I have a Kindle Touch that downloads KF8 or Mobi which can have the DRM removed. It does not download KFX. So I'm good to go.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

There aren't that many left. If they also discontinue D&T, then that's it for Mac owners, for example. Kindle for Mac can no longer be used to deDRM.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I'm not sure if it even works anymore. Last I tried, it refused to download some newer books.

It would probably be more helpful to know, before posting that it can't be done?

And I would guess that if enough Mac users want to remove DRM, the DRM will be hacked. They could even buy a cheap PC.

To paraphrase Dr. Malcolm, "DRM removal finds a way."

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

In the U.S. at least, the DMCA explictly prohibits "circumventing" DRM with some limited exceptions (e.g. right to repair). But nobody actually cares as long as you don't start doing things like redistributing the files.

I still hope that the EU recognizes at some point that Amazon is actively trying to prevent users from moving to another ecosystem without losing all of their books and starts implementing legislation. One can hope…

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do have a method that works perfectly.

I have a Kindle Touch that downloads KF8 or Mobi which can have the DRM removed. It does not download KFX. So I'm good to go.

Until Amazon lets you know you have to buy a new Kindle, because you can't download new books to your old Touch anymore. This scenario seems more and more likely...

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by John F

It would probably be more helpful to know, before posting that it can't be done?

And I would guess that if enough Mac users want to remove DRM, the DRM will be hacked. They could even buy a cheap PC.

To paraphrase Dr. Malcolm, "DRM removal finds a way."

You seem to forget there were several posters who couldn't get the Android method to work at all.

I'm not very optimistic about there always being a way. For one thing, Amazon is actively trying to stop it and they have more resources than any one hacker. And there seem to be fewer and fewer people even interested in trying.

I'm pretty sure both the Kindle for PC method and D&T will stop working/being available in the near future. I'd love to be wrong, of course.

[John F]

Looking at the glass as half full...

Originally Posted by Sirtel

You seem to forget there were several posters who couldn't get the Android method to work at all.

And others could? You could, so why post that it can't be done?

I'm not very optimistic about there always being a way. For one thing, Amazon is actively trying to stop it and they have more resources than any one hacker. And there seem to be fewer and fewer people even interested in trying.

Luckily, there is more then one hacker, so the hackers resources add up? Amazon has been changing the DRM for how long, and for how long has it been hacked?

I'm pretty sure both the Kindle for PC method and D&T will stop working/being available in the near future. I'd love to be wrong, of course.

What do you consider the near future? I would guess that D&T will be around for at least 5 years (for those devices it is currently available). I agree that the PC method probably won't work in the near future, but in the very near future after that, it will.

Just an opinion. And if Amazon can't be hacked, no great loss (for me).

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by John F

Looking at the glass as half full...

And others could? You could, so why post that it can't be done?

Because it was a lot more complicated to set up than other methods - it took me a lot of time and many attempts; several others who posted here didn't manage at all and I'm sure there were many who didn't even try. And as I said, last I tried it no longer downloaded some newer books, so it had become even less reliable in the short time I did use it. I wouldn't wonder if Amazon had blocked it entirely by now, or if they haven't, they're going to, because this method relied on an old version of the app. And we all know how long those old app methods have lasted, since Amazon grew interested in stopping DRM removal. A few weeks, a few months, a year at most.

The only long-lasting methods have been those relying on older devices and formats, and it looks like Amazon is now planning to do something about them too. Personally I don't believe D&T is still here in 5 years, but of course I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

I still hope that the EU recognizes at some point that Amazon is actively trying to prevent users from moving to another ecosystem without losing all of their books and starts implementing legislation. One can hope…

I would also be happy with EU recognizing the KDP exclusivity clause as anti-competitve, so authors actually have a choice to go wide (and list on other sites with less restrictive DRM) without forgoing the KU profits.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by John F

And if Amazon can't be hacked, no great loss (for me).

Yup.

For some years, I've been store agnostic and I'd download directly to the relevant device. I had a slight preference for buying from Kobo, all else being equal, but I'd buy from Kindle when it was cheaper. However, once Amazon drastically reduced their kickbacks in the Kindle rewards beta program, I shifted to Kobo. It's always cheaper, given the gift card discount and rebates in combination with the price-matching program when list prices differ.

My point. Everyone here has downloaded their Amazon purchases and DeDRMed then. So going forward, why not just buy from Kobo? Or another ebook purveyor (some of my own books come from Google)? Or at least figure you'll buy from Amazon until you can't, and then you'll move on? Comforting yourself in the knowledge that Amazon has lost business (which is a reason to switch now, if your resentment is sufficient).

Yeah, I know. There's some tunnel vision here. I have zero interest in Kindle exclusives. But even at that, my understanding goes only so far. Why not just... read something else? You'll never be able to access all the books you'd like to read and you'll never be able to read everything you'd like to anyway. The books I don't buy are legion and as with so many here, I'll never be able to read everything I already own.

In short: annoyance, I get. Being upset, I get (don't get me started on no longer being able to download audiobooks to the Windows OverDrive app). But the outrage, the gloom and doom -- I really don't get. As things stand now, you'll still be able to buy books and download them and read them on your preferred devices, even if not from Amazon. But the indignation because one store has decided to make itself somewhat less accessible in line with what has always been part of their stated user agreement, even when you made your original purchases.... It's a headscratcher to me.

[Sirtel]

Oh, I'll buy elsewhere, once it's no longer possible to remove DRM from Kindle books by any method. And I'm not all that invested in Kindle exclusives either, although I do buy them occasionally.

It's not that. For me, it's the general principle of the thing. If Amazon gets away with an unremovable DRM, other vendors might follow suit. And yes, personally I don't need to buy any more books at all, ever. It's just... I wouldn't like to live in a world where every digital purchase has an unremovable DRM, or is only accessible in a proprietary app or via subscription. The thought makes me sad, I can't help it.

Of course I'm a pessimist by nature, so I always imagine the worst possible outcome. Unfortunately I'm not always disappointed in my expectations.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I wouldn't like to live in a world where every digital purchase has an unremovable DRM, or is only accessible in a proprietary app or via subscription.

Fair enough. As I noted, I am not happy with the OverDrive decision that is removing the ability to listen to library books on an MP3 player, instead of being limited to the Libby app.

I still think that people who are unhappy should do a little consumer action NOW, and take their purchases elsewhere. Will it make a difference? Unlikely. People here aren't a significant portion of Kindle sales. Still. If it's what you can do....

Akin to that is why I refuse to click on links to GoodeReader. It's all I can do and hope that others do the same. In any case, for various reasons I'm glad I've already stopped buying Kindle books, although I never saw Amazon as the great evil.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Until Amazon lets you know you have to buy a new Kindle, because you can't download new books to your old Touch anymore. This scenario seems more and more likely...

I cannot see that happening. What I could see happening is not allowing an old Kindle being registered. But registered Kindles I cannot see no longer working.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by issybird

Yup.

For some years, I've been store agnostic and I'd download directly to the relevant device. I had a slight preference for buying from Kobo, all else being equal, but I'd buy from Kindle when it was cheaper. However, once Amazon drastically reduced their kickbacks in the Kindle rewards beta program, I shifted to Kobo. It's always cheaper, given the gift card discount and rebates in combination with the price-matching program when list prices differ.

My point. Everyone here has downloaded their Amazon purchases and DeDRMed then. So going forward, why not just buy from Kobo? Or another ebook purveyor (some of my own books come from Google)? Or at least figure you'll buy from Amazon until you can't, and then you'll move on? Comforting yourself in the knowledge that Amazon has lost business (which is a reason to switch now, if your resentment is sufficient).

Yeah, I know. There's some tunnel vision here. I have zero interest in Kindle exclusives. But even at that, my understanding goes only so far. Why not just... read something else? You'll never be able to access all the books you'd like to read and you'll never be able to read everything you'd like to anyway. The books I don't buy are legion and as with so many here, I'll never be able to read everything I already own.

In short: annoyance, I get. Being upset, I get (don't get me started on no longer being able to download audiobooks to the Windows OverDrive app). But the outrage, the gloom and doom -- I really don't get. As things stand now, you'll still be able to buy books and download them and read them on your preferred devices, even if not from Amazon. But the indignation because one store has decided to make itself somewhat less accessible in line with what has always been part of their stated user agreement, even when you made your original purchases.... It's a headscratcher to me.

Me too. I've stopped with Kindle eBooks when they cut off 2023+ releases from being liberated. Although most of my book purchases lately have tended to be stuff from Humble Bundle when they have something that interests me (granted, not that often). No DRM though! Or I just read a book from the library. Have to really want it to get it off Kobo.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I cannot see that happening. What I could see happening is not allowing an old Kindle being registered. But registered Kindles I cannot see no longer working.

I can. Easily. Say, all books published in 2025 (or 2026, 2027...) can only be downloaded in the KFX format. They will just tell you to read in an app, if you don't want to buy a new Kindle.

Your old Kindle might still be able to read books published before that hypothetical date, but not newer books.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I can. Easily. Say, all books published in 2025 (or 2026, 2027...) can only be downloaded in the KFX format. They will just tell you to read in an app, if you don't want to buy a new Kindle.

Your old Kindle might still be able to read books published before that hypothetical date, but not newer books.

Amazon would lose customers that way. I won't buy a new Kindle.