[GUI Plugin] Count Pages

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by girlsoconfusing

I tried converting my full library to ADE and made sure the settings were identical for each book but now all of them are showing drastically different page counts than what's displayed in Calibre.

Somewhere Beyond the Sea:
Calibre: 337 pages
Pocketbook: 967 pages

The Way of the Kings
Calibre: 1041 pages
Pocketbook: 3523 pages

Slow Horses:
Calibre: 274 pages
Pocketbook: 670 pages

Is it normal that the page count is this different?

Yes. The only page measurements with any reliability and consistency between devices are the Adobe Synthetic Page Number algorithm for ePubs and Amazon APNX for Kindle format. For ePub, using the ASPN algorithm will give the same page number regardless of screen size, font size, line spacing, margins etc. Other methods of determining pages that use screens to measure pages have the sole advantage that you get 1 page per screen so your page count will vary with font size, line spacing, margins, basically anything that changes the amount of text that will fit on a screen.

Please note that both the consistent algorithms will give page numbers anywhere on the page.

Even though I will admit to be very amused by people worrying about the page numbers on a reflowable format where font size, line spacing, margins etc. are more or less under the users control.

The only use I have for the CountPages plugin is to give me an approximate idea of how long it will take to read a book. You may want to check many previous threads on page counts such as How does the kobo calculate book page counts? from 2015.

BTW, calibre uses ~1024 characters as a page, the fast APNX uses 2300 while the accurate one used by CountPages looks at characters and paragraphs. Adobe algorithm is a bit of a weirdo since it uses 1024 compressed characters as per the following from Adobe:

When page map is not available in the document, Adobe Digital Editions will synthesize a page-map based on the document content. The approach used is the following:

1. Determine a compressed byte length of each resource which is referenced in the spine, subtracting any known encryption overhead (IV size)
2. Assume that there is a page for each 1024 bytes in each resource, rounding up to the nearest whole number of pages for each resource
3. To map page breaks into a resource, use the number of pages for the resource as determined in step 2, count the number of Unicode characters in the resource; distribute synthetic page breaks in the resource evenly between the characters by dividing the number of characters by the number of pages; if the number of characters don’t divide evenly among the pages, round the number of characters per page up and let the last “page” contain less characters than the rest.

[girlsoconfusing]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Yes. The only page measurements with any reliability and consistency between devices are the Adobe Synthetic Page Number algorithm for ePubs and Amazon APNX for Kindle format. For ePub, using the ASPN algorithm will give the same page number regardless of screen size, font size, line spacing, margins etc. Other methods of determining pages that use screens to measure pages have the sole advantage that you get 1 page per screen so your page count will vary with font size, line spacing, margins, basically anything that changes the amount of text that will fit on a screen.

Please note that both the consistent algorithms will give page numbers anywhere on the page.

Even though I will admit to be very amused by people worrying about the page numbers on a reflowable format where font size, line spacing, margins etc. are more or less under the users control.

The only use I have for the CountPages plugin is to give me an approximate idea of how long it will take to read a book. You may want to check many previous threads on page counts such as How does the kobo calculate book page counts? from 2015.

I am new to ereaders so I am getting used to the flow of things. When reading a physical book, I can see how long I have left in the book and can see how many pages are left until the next chapter. As compared to an ebook, if the ereader is telling me that my physical ~1,200 page book is actually 3,000 pages, that trips me up and doesn't give me a good sense of my pacing in the book.

Is the better way to tackle this to look at time until next chapter/time until book is complete? Could you explain that a bit more and how this plugin allows you to use that?


----

Also sorry for double posting, I completely missed that my posts are on mod approval since I'm new here and thought I had accidentally deleted my original message.

[ownedbycats]

How would you deal with having two copies of the same book, one in hardback and the other in a physically smaller paperback, having different page counts? Think of it that way.

[DNSB]

Since I am using a Kobo ereader, I use Count Pages with the ADE algorithm. I also have the KoboTouch (same for the KoboTouchExtended) driver configured to send the Count Pages words and pages count to my Kobo's book details along with an approximate reading time (the 24000 and 22300 in the calculated values reflect my reading speed which is a bit higher than the average.)

Again, this only gives me an idea of how long it will take to read the entire book. Any chapter times are estimates by Kobo.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

How would you deal with having two copies of the same book, one in hardback and the other in a physically smaller paperback, having different page counts? Think of it that way.

That is the main reason that I find the search for the "One True Page Number" to be a source of much humour.

At one time, I looked at a pbook I had in hard cover, trade paperback and paperback. All 3 had different total pages so which one is the correct one? The ePub version had a page map which did not agree with any of the three since it was based on the 2nd edition hard cover.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by DNSB

That is the main reason that I find the search for the "One True Page Number" to be a source of much humour.

At one time, I looked at a pbook I had in hard cover, trade paperback and paperback. All 3 had different total pages so which one is the correct one? The ePub version had a page map which did not agree with any of the three since it was based on the 2nd edition hard cover.

Yeah, since I also store records of physical books in my library, I did this to make sure everything was roughly comparable:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Yes, this. Personally, I had a few books that had both eBook and physical copies, so I picked three of them of different sizes (mass-market, hardback, I think the third was a weirdly-sized softcover) and then played around with options until the counts were 'close enough' to the paper copies. Then I ran it over the other books in my library.

[shamanNS]

"One True Page Number" is obviously based on number of characters, where that number is relatively close to the average / typical paperback pBook What should constitute that typical definition should be one time decision when used start generating that info.

Personally I like having the ability to have a both "dynamic count" (= number of screens, dependent on chosen formatting settings) and "static count" ( = this is an idea how pbook page count would be like) and KOReader enables me to have that. With an "user patch" that for epubs that don't have PageMap/PageList information ( that maps to a particular pBook edition) makes / fakes "Reference pages numbers list" with the criteria being X number of characters, where I choose that X.

local ReaderPageMap = require("apps/reader/modules/readerpagemap")
local postInit_orig = ReaderPageMap._postInit

ReaderPageMap._postInit = function(self)
    self.ui.document:buildSyntheticPageMapIfNoneDocumentProvided(1650)

    -- Run original code
    postInit_orig(self)
end

So I always have a choice whether I want to have both types of counts (faked pbook pages or actual number of screens) displayed at the same time or choose which of the two should be used for progress bar indicator.

Even if I don't actually change formatting option between different books and have a clear an fairly constant formula that screen count + 30-to-35% = "typical" pbook count... I still like tl have that information visually.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by shamanNS

"One True Page Number" is obviously based on number of characters, where that number is relatively close to the average / typical paperback pBook What should constitute that typical definition should be one time decision when used start generating that info.

Personally I like having the ability to have a both "dynamic count" (= number of screens, dependent on chosen formatting settings) and "static count" ( = this is an idea how pbook page count would be like) and KOReader enables me to have that. With an "user patch" that for epubs that don't have PageMap/PageList information ( that maps to a particular pBook edition) makes / fakes "Reference pages numbers list" with the criteria being X number of characters, where I choose that X.

"One True Page Number" does not exist. Even in pbooks, the page count varies between formats and editions. I did find your statement that it is "obviously" and continuing to reference paperbacks (paperback pbook is a reduncdancy) to be a laugh. Most page maps/page lists are based on the 1st edition hardcover ASSUMING that there is even a pbook edition since most indie published books are only now starting to have paper editions.

Personally, I like the consistency of the ASPN and word counts to give me an idea of how long it will take me to read a book. Inside a reflowable ebook, worrying about page numbers is at best silly. Your desire to have both screens and notional pages is your choice.

And lest we forget, images play havoc with page number calculations. And if you find one of those rare ebooks where B64 images were used, good luck.

[Divingduck]

Originally Posted by DNSB

"One True Page Number" does not exist.

Well, I would slightly disagree. Sure it exists.
It only do not exist if one forgot to mention what book exactly you are talking about. The hole discussion about page count is missing this important part of the story. The count varies for each version of print, format or media and this is why we have different ISBN numbers for each version, format, revision and media of a published book. The combination helps to identify about what book we are talking if we referencing to a text of a book. This is why citability still works (and why the often mentioned dead horse is still very vital).

Regarding word count, I too like it for the same reason you mentioned and even this has it's own difficulties.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by girlsoconfusing

I tried converting my full library to ADE and made sure the settings were identical for each book but now all of them are showing drastically different page counts than what's displayed in Calibre.

Somewhere Beyond the Sea:
Calibre: 337 pages
Pocketbook: 967 pages

The Way of the Kings
Calibre: 1041 pages
Pocketbook: 3523 pages

Slow Horses:
Calibre: 274 pages
Pocketbook: 670 pages

Is it normal that the page count is this different?

It sounds like Pocketbook has multiple reading apps and the one you are using the one that does 1 screen = 1 page. Can you use RMSDK (ADE) on the Pocketbook instead?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

That is the main reason that I find the search for the "One True Page Number" to be a source of much humour.

At one time, I looked at a pbook I had in hard cover, trade paperback and paperback. All 3 had different total pages so which one is the correct one? The ePub version had a page map which did not agree with any of the three since it was based on the 2nd edition hard cover.

We could have had the one true page number if Adobe had gotten their page numbering made part of the ePub standard.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It sounds like Pocketbook has multiple reading apps and the one you are using the one that does 1 screen = 1 page. Can you use RMSDK (ADE) on the Pocketbook instead?

Pocketbook has a configuration option to either show 1 screen = 1 page or Adobe pages.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by girlsoconfusing

I tried converting my full library to ADE and made sure the settings were identical for each book but now all of them are showing drastically different page counts than what's displayed in Calibre.

Somewhere Beyond the Sea:
Calibre: 337 pages
Pocketbook: 967 pages

The Way of the Kings
Calibre: 1041 pages
Pocketbook: 3523 pages

Slow Horses:
Calibre: 274 pages
Pocketbook: 670 pages

Is it normal that the page count is this different?

Here is the solution to your problem.

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Pocketbook has a configuration option to either show 1 screen = 1 page or Adobe pages.

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

We could have had the one true page number is Adobe had gotten their page numbering made part of the ePub standard.

Um. NO. Even if there IS a defined standard, other's do not have to use it.
https://xkcd.com/927

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Um. NO. Even if there IS a defined standard, other's do not have to use it.
https://xkcd.com/927

If it's part of the standard and not optional, then yes they have to use it. If any software was not to use it, then they page number would be wrong and we'd still have the one true page number.