Malware and pirated ebooks

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by theducks

As someone who has towed (and owns an small EV), The Cyber truck does not match the Air Flow of the Trailer, causing huge air resistance. OTOH The ICE pickup was taller, so the air passing over it was deflected up and over the trailer for a sleek flow.
Wrong Vehicle combination. If that had been a Ski Boat (would be low and the hull aids flow), he probably would gotten the advertised range.

Driving an EV for range, requires a driving style change. That was rammed home when I rented a car similar to the one I owned before my Leaf. My best mileage before EV was 30 (1.7L engine) After EV was 50 (2.0L)
Simply by NOT using all the performance (snappy starts and quick stops) it had.

Sorry to disagree but from the pictures of their mobile home hooked up to the 3500, it is considerably taller than their 3500 so while the air resistance might be lower, it's not that much lower. I went out and checked multiple reviews/comments/etc. on towing and EVs. Virtually every comment on towing using an EV whether it be a Cybertruck, a Rivian R1T, F150 Lightning, whatever suggests that towing using an EV is not going to be a happy experience. One item compared towing using a F150 in both the ICE and EV versions. Oddly, the Lightning did even worse than the Cybertruck in terms of range loss. The F150 ICE lost about 15% of it's range by comparison.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Sorry to disagree but from the pictures of their mobile home hooked up to the 3500, it is considerably taller than their 3500 so while the air resistance might be lower, it's not that much lower. I went out and checked multiple reviews/comments/etc. on towing and EVs. Virtually every comment on towing using an EV whether it be a Cybertruck, a Rivian R1T, F150 Lightning, whatever suggests that towing using an EV is not going to be a happy experience. One item compared towing using a F150 in both the ICE and EV versions. Oddly, the Lightning did even worse than the Cybertruck in terms of range loss. The F150 ICE lost about 15% of it's range by comparison.

Has anyone explained why?

[haertig]

I learned a lesson towing one of those box trailers with my F-150 (the gas one, not the EV). I'm not a trailer guy, and this was a one-time tow across the country to help someone move.

Air resistance makes a big difference! Nobody told me I wasn't supposed to drag that trailer along behind me at 90mph. I didn't figure that out until after the trip. Meanwhile, while ON the trip, my gas mileage was about 7 mpg. I could barely make it from gas station to gas station. I was later told that if I had managed to constrain myself to 60mph and under, I would have saved several hundred dollars - or more - on gasoline during the trip.

Oops!

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Two acquaintances of mine in California purchased a Cybertruck and were quite happy with it driving around town for a couple of months. Then they made the mistake of trying to use it to tow their mobile home to a campsite about 800km/500 miles away for an annual family get together . They got about 150km/94 miles from home before having to hit a charger since the Cybertruck had dropped to ~8% charged. At that point, they charged to 90%, turned around and headed home. Once they got home, they hooked the mobile home up to their Dodge 3500 and headed back out.

I have a Chevy Volt and it baffles me that PHEVs didn't take over.

The Volt gives me 50 miles on battery which works for about 90% of my day-to-day driving. But it also has a gas tank which gives me 350 miles.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by haertig

Air resistance makes a big difference!

It might a cube law? 3 times faster needs 27 x more energy?
Even square law would be 9 x more energy at 3x speed.

But the shape of trailer, "tractor" and spacing between them acounts for a lot which is why birds fly in a > shape at a particular spacing.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Quoth

It might a cube law? 3 times faster needs 27 x more energy?
Even square law would be 9 x more energy at 3x speed.

But the shape of trailer, "tractor" and spacing between them acounts for a lot which is why birds fly in a > shape at a particular spacing.

Air drag for 3x speed requires 9x power and 27x energy for fixed time and 9x energy for fixed distance

At 90mph air drag dwarfs rolling resistance but it is 3x 30mph and increases linearly with total weight, so higher total weight would take more energy even in a vacuum.

mpg also takes a big hit if there is a lot of climbing, even with regenerative braking, and if you run out of juice before significant descending you don't even get that.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I have a Chevy Volt and it baffles me that PHEVs didn't take over.

If I was going to get an EV, I think this is what I would get. I like the flexibility of being able to plug it in, or have the gasoline engine charge the battery, or be able to run completely off the gasoline engine.

But the things that still give me pause are:

(1) The batteries are very expensive to replace. ANd they may not even be available anymore for your car when the time comes for replacement. I wouldn't want an expensive EV, I would want a moderately priced one (if there is such a thing in the PHEV offerings). But that kind of makes the car disposable, due to the high cost of battery replacement - it's just not financially smart, for a less expensive EV. I don't see battery replacement as being feasible at present. Plus, what do you do with the old dead batteries? I don't think that's been adequately addressed yet.

(2) The added complexity of having to design and maintain two separate engines/drivetrains - one electric and one gasoline. I'm not sure (I don't really know) if there is a wide availability of third party parts for EV's. I'm kind of thinking that they may only be available from the cars manufacturer for the most part. And if the manufacturer stops supporting an older vehicle (probably because technology innovations obsoleted it), where does that leave you? Or like has happened to a couple EV manufacturers, they totally out of business - yikes! - what do you do then?

(3) Lack of standards across the industry. Aren't there still different types of chargers for different vehicles? Can a Chevy pull up and use a Tesla charging station? Or a Ford one? Maybe they can use them, but not in a fast charging mode. I don't know specific incompatibilities, but I believe there are still some present.

(4) If the SHTF and we are in a grid down situation (maybe a big storm, violent solar activity, or even war) how are you going to charge EV's? Unlike gasoline cars where you can drive in a tanker of gasoline, you can't really drive in a tanker of electricity.

At some time, EV's may be the way to go. But I don't think now is the time. At least not as your primary vehicle. I certainly wouldn't have an EV if I didn't also have gas powered vehicles that could take over 100% my transportation needs at a seconds notice.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

(2) The added complexity of having to design and maintain two separate engines/drivetrains - one electric and one gasoline.

This is one of the main things that put us off ordering a PHEV - no gain at all on maintenance costs. Plus the worst of both worlds in terms of fire - more likely to catch fire due to the ICE, more likely to keep burning because of the battery.

We are currently awaiting delivery of a BYD Dolphin with zero regrets, after research and extensive chats with friends who have been using EVs for a while.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

I wonder if this implies that the Cybertruck is also malware.

Junk is the proper term.

[trekk]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

I wonder if this implies that the Cybertruck is also malware.

I think you are onto something

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Air drag for 3x speed requires 9x power and 27x energy for fixed time.

That doesn't sound right. Power is energy per unit time, so if it's using 9x the power for a fixed period of time, it's using 9x the energy.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by jbjb

That doesn't sound right. Power is energy per unit time, so if it's using 9x the power for a fixed period of time, it's using 9x the energy.

You are correct, I was misremembering.

Air drag increases as velocity squared, the power to overcome air drag increases as velocity cubed.

Thank you for catching my mistake.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by haertig

(1) The batteries are very expensive to replace. ANd they may not even be available anymore for your car when the time comes for replacement. I wouldn't want an expensive EV, I would want a moderately priced one (if there is such a thing in the PHEV offerings). But that kind of makes the car disposable, due to the high cost of battery replacement - it's just not financially smart, for a less expensive EV. I don't see battery replacement as being feasible at present. Plus, what do you do with the old dead batteries? I don't think that's been adequately addressed yet.

I bought a 2017 Volt Premier in 2019 for $17,000 and have had two issues. The touchscreen went out and a valve needs replacing. In five years of ownership, that's not bad.

I bought it in September and didn't have to put gas in it until February.

(2) The added complexity of having to design and maintain two separate engines/drivetrains - one electric and one gasoline.

That's not how they work. At least not the Volt and likely not other PHEVs. They have a small gasoline engine that powers a generator that runs the same drivetrain.

(3) Lack of standards across the industry. Aren't there still different types of chargers for different vehicles? Can a Chevy pull up and use a Tesla charging station? Or a Ford one? Maybe they can use them, but not in a fast charging mode. I don't know specific incompatibilities, but I believe there are still some present.

There's what everyone else uses and there is what Tesla uses. Tesla is the iPhone of electric cars.

(4) If the SHTF and we are in a grid down situation (maybe a big storm, violent solar activity, or even war) how are you going to charge EV's? Unlike gasoline cars where you can drive in a tanker of gasoline, you can't really drive in a tanker of electricity.

That's the point of the PHEV. If the grid is down, I just drive my Volt with gasoline, like I do with my Mercedes.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Air drag increases as velocity squared, the power to overcome air drag increases as velocity cubed.

That's a really important point, and emphasises how important low drag is for fuel economy.

Thank you for catching my mistake.

No problem! Your point was still completely valid.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

(4) If the SHTF and we are in a grid down situation (maybe a big storm, violent solar activity, or even war) how are you going to charge EV's? Unlike gasoline cars where you can drive in a tanker of gasoline, you can't really drive in a tanker of electricity.

This one goes both ways. There were major floods in Australia a year or two ago (I think it was both, actually - we've had a pretty awful time with natural disasters). An acquaintance of mine felt a little smug charging his car from solar/battery setup and going about his merry way while people were unable to refuel with petrol. Distributed renewal energy systems are more disaster-resilient than fossil fuel distribution networks in some ways.