Harry Potter Should Be Public Domain

[jinlo]

Originally Posted by krisk

trade it for BACON!!!

Ahh, sometimes I simply overlook the obvious. This is indeed one of those instances. I shall now retire to a dark corner and hope for redemption.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Sonist

P.S. I actually like J.K. Rowling She writes well, and the HP books (even if they owe significant debt to LOTR), will likely remain one of the best series of its kind for the next few decades, at least.

But I also find her preoccupation with copyright enforcement crossing the line of "normal" at times, and her objections to e-books (presumably stemming form IP concerns), rub me the wrong way.

And since she is perhaps the most visible opponent of e-books, I see her as a large, clear target, for some occasional fun, as well as a convenient example of a "Death Eater" in the world of e-bookdom.

I understand people being disgruntled that there aren't ebook versions of her works available (especially on a site devoted to ebooks), but I'm really puzzled about the LOTR claim that people like to toss around. I can't think of any obvious connections between the two (except for in that awful Chinese knock-off in which Gandalf turns out to be Harry's grandfather or something). Yeah, they're both "hero" stories... like about half of Western literature. (Ok, not half. But rather a lot.) You might as well say both Rowling and Tolkien ripped off Homer.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I understand people being disgruntled that there aren't ebook versions of her works available (especially on a site devoted to ebooks), but I'm really puzzled about the LOTR claim that people like to toss around. I can't think of any obvious connections between the two (except for in that awful Chinese knock-off in which Gandalf turns out to be Harry's grandfather or something). Yeah, they're both "hero" stories... like about half of Western literature. (Ok, not half. But rather a lot.) You might as well say both Rowling and Tolkien ripped off Homer.

Really goes to show that there is (often) very little that is new in novels, just subtle and often very clever reworking of ideas ....

[vivaldirules]

Harry Potter Should Be Public Domain Burned

Hey, he's a witch or something, right? By the way, I wanted to express my thanks to J. K. Rowling for writing such a great series of books. I've only read the first two myself, but from the effects I see on my kids and their friends, she did a terrific thing to excite kids in positive ways. Maybe I should write her check or buy her something nice for Christmas this year, eh?

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I understand people being disgruntled that there aren't ebook versions of her works available (especially on a site devoted to ebooks), but I'm really puzzled about the LOTR claim that people like to toss around. I can't think of any obvious connections between the two (except for in that awful Chinese knock-off in which Gandalf turns out to be Harry's grandfather or something)....

I actually read HP right after I read LOTR, and was struck by many of the similarities:

1. Both feature a "dark lord" regaining his power.

2. Both feature a group of "small" people on a quest against the "dark lord."

3. LOTR has a ring, through which the "dark lord" communicates with the hero. Harry Potter has the scar, which does the same thing.

4. Both have a "helpful wizard" main character - Gandalf in LOTR, Dumbledore in HP.

5. The Dementors in HP have some pretty obvious similarities to the Nazgul from LOTR.

I am sure there are many others, but you get the point.

As I said, I really liked the HP books, and I do think JKR is a very good writer.

I just find it ironic, that she is so overly protective of the IP rights to her characters, when there is at least some derivative material in her own work.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Sonist

I actually read HP right after I read LOTR, and was struck by many of the similarities:

1. Both feature a "dark lord" regaining his power.

2. Both feature a group of "small" people on a quest against the "dark lord."

3. LOTR has a ring, through which the "dark lord" communicates with the hero. Harry Potter has the scar, which does the same thing.

4. Both have a "helpful wizard" main character - Gandalf in LOTR, Dumbledore in HP.

5. The Dementors in HP have some pretty obvious similarities to the Nazgul from LOTR.

I am sure there are many others, but you get the point.

As I said, I really liked the HP books, and I do think JKR is a very good writer.

I just find it ironic, that she is so overly protective of the IP rights to her characters, when there is at least some derivative material in her own work.

Erm... are you familiar with Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces? And do you know the term bildungsroman?

I'd give you #4, except that the backstories are so different (Gandalf is a Maiar sent to Middle Earth, Dumbledore is an ordinary human/wizard who has made a lot of mistakes in his life) and Gandalf comes back from the dead, but Dumbledore doesn't. I'd say both authors are borrowing the trope from King Arthur legends. I didn't really find the dementors (a separate species of beings that prey upon human emotions) at all similar to the Nazgul (a fixed number of fallen Men).

You can find these sorts of comparisons all over the internet, but really, I think the strongest similarity is simply that they are both fantasy series that changed a generation. I read a lot of fantasy, including stories that don't end up on "bestseller" lists, and you could make a list like this comparing nearly any two books in the genre-- yet Garth Nix' Abhorsen series is easily distinguished from Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series or from Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea series.

In short, I don't think Rowling's writing is especially derivative of any single author, including Tolkien, but I do agree with the opinion that she is over-protective of "her" IP. Then again, I favor shorter copyright periods (e.g. 40 years after publication) in part precisely because after a period of time, ideas from a new work percolate through the culture and are no longer distinguishable.

Edit to add: I suppose part of the reason I feel this way is that after LOTR was published, there were quite a few "quest" fantasy stories published that were so clearly derivative, e.g. Terry Brooks' Sword of Shanara (the first book, not where he went with the rest of the series so much). Compared to those blatant imitations, I just can't see the Harry Potter stories as being that similar.

[kacir]

No. No LOTR. Mrs. Rowling clearly stole the plot for Harry Potter from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card ;-)

Originally Posted by Orson Scott Card at [url

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2008-04-20.shtml][/url]
A young kid growing up in an oppressive family situation suddenly learns that he is one of a special class of children with special abilities, who are to be educated in a remote training facility where student life is dominated by an intense game played by teams flying in midair, at which this kid turns out to be exceptionally talented and a natural leader. He trains other kids in unauthorized extra sessions, which enrages his enemies, who attack him with the intention of killing him; but he is protected by his loyal, brilliant friends and gains strength from the love of some of his family members. He is given special guidance by an older man of legendary accomplishments who previously kept the enemy at bay. He goes on to become the crucial figure in a struggle against an unseen enemy who threatens the whole world.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by kacir

No. No LOTR. Mrs. Rowling clearly stole the plot for Harry Potter from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card ;-)

Wow! You clearly trump my list.

I find this part of the blog you refer to, particularly crazy, in light of JKR's IP militancy:

"...Check out this piece from a fan site, pointing out links between Harry Potter and other previous works: http://www.geocities.com/versetrue/rowling.htm. And don't forget the lawsuit by Nancy K. Stouffer, the author of a book entitled The Legend of Rah and the Muggles, whose hero was named "Larry Potter."..."

[vivaldirules]

"IP militancy"

I'm telling you, man, we should just storm the place and steal the stuff. You clearly won't be satisfied until then. Then we should roam the streets and steal all the books from everywhere that have copyrights. Ditto for music, art, software, etc. Then we can start to work on the physical stuff - like wives and daughters.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

"IP militancy"

I'm telling you, man, we should just storm the place and steal the stuff. You clearly won't be satisfied until then....

I've actually purchased hardcover copies of all of her books. So I am not sure what your point is.

But you really don't see the irony of someone, who clearly borrowed some of her ideas from others, then apparently purchased their rights to preempt possible lawsuits, turning around and suing a Calcutta festival, or a Lexicon publisher?

I know it's business, but it doesn't make one feel all magical inside.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

"IP militancy"

I'm telling you, man, we should just storm the place and steal the stuff. You clearly won't be satisfied until then. Then we should roam the streets and steal all the books from everywhere that have copyrights. Ditto for music, art, software, etc. Then we can start to work on the physical stuff - like wives and daughters.

You forgot the bacon suppliers >>>>>>