Seriously thoughtful What is it that makes us human?

[LazyScot]

I think one of the points in the book, is the number of levels at which we can do this (which I think is in part related to the structure and form of our brains), which is more than other tested animals. There are, I believe, tests which can evaluate the number of levels different animals can perform this sort of operation -- and they show how the levels develop as babies grow.

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that things like games of strategy (especially multi-player versions) are based about the ability to do multiple level assessments.

[Ea]

Which "book"? I feel compelled to ask.

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by LazyScot

I'd suggest reading "The Human Story" by Robin Dunbar -- unfortunately it's not available electronically as far as I know.

This one
I havent read it (so far).

[LazyScot]

Originally Posted by tirsales

This one
I havent read it (so far).

yes, I was referring to "The Human Story" by Robin Dunbar (subtitle: a new history of mankind's evolution).

Having found it on my shelves, a short quote (short since I've got to type it in....)

Conventional wisdom suggests that adult humans have an absolute upper limit on the levels of intentionality that they can cope with at about five or six orders:

Peter believes (1) that Jane thinks (2) that Sally wants (3) Peter to suppose (4) that Jane intends (5) Sally to believe (6) that her ball is under the cushion.

If your mind has just been turned inside-out by this sentence, it is not too surprising: few adult humans can keep who's thinking what here straight because, in the limit, there are too many orders of intentionality (marked out by the numbered verbs in italics) for us to keep track of. Most everyday situatons probably require no more than second-order intentionality and, in actual practice, the limit for most people is probably about fourth or fifth order.

(He goes on to talk about the benefits of supporting higher order intentionality, including that (good) writers need to have one higher order than their readers....)

There's actually a lot more in the book, including talking about culture and religion.

EDIT ADDITION: This review seems pretty fair to me and covers much of what the book talks about.

[slayda]

Well by DixieGal's definition, I guess I'm not human.

However I believe that zoologists define us as Homo sapiens or more commonly as humans, so by that definition, I'm a human.

You might as well ask is a tree a tree? or is a dog a dog? The term human is just a name we have more-or-less agreed to call ourselves. A more interesting question might be, "If you took a living human brain and encased it in a robot body with appropriate life support for the brain, would that entity be a human?"

And no a chimp is not a human. Neither is a dolphin, gorilla, dog, horse, etc., etc. They are classified differently.

I think that under the US legal system, a human can be considered as a non-person, and a legal entity, of some sorts, can be considered a person. However I don't think that addresses the purpose of the question.

Another question, "If you think I'm not a human, does that make me a non-human?" No. As Popeye said, "I yam what I yam." Your opinion doesn't change what I am, although it might change what my legal status is.

So whether I'm a human, I yam what I yam.

[nohmi2]

The vast majority of us belong to some sort of 'religion'.

The same can be said regarding belief in reincarnation.

We are the only species that will rape or sexually abuse its young.

Sorry about the last one, but it had to be said.

Cheers

[hidari]

And some animals are known to kill their young.


Humans have the use of Language. This language faculty helps define us as beings. We have a very complex form of communication. Most likely, the most complex.

Originally Posted by nohmi2

The vast majority of us belong to some sort of 'religion'.

We are the only species that will rape or sexually abuse its young.

Sorry about the last one, but it had to be said.

Cheers

[Moejoe]

The answer is simple. Trousers. There you go. Close the thread, the question is answered. Oh, and hats too

[netseeker]

Maybe it's just our narcism that makes us think that "human" differs so much from "animalic".

[RickyMaveety]

I would say it is our ability to rationalize even the worst things.

[wodin]

Shoes! It's defiantly shoes. Unless, of course we’re talking about horses.

[nohmi2]

Methinks that I have set the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Maybe it's from listening to the news, watching the news and reading some of the overseas news.

Okay, all is back to normal - as you were.

[Dr. Drib]

...to try to get this discussion back on a serious level again, please...

I've been thinking about this question for a long time way before you posted it. I think "Blade Runner" (this film based upon Philip K. Dick's novel, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep") is a very good example to get us thinking about this question.

I don't think it has to do with flesh or with a belief system (or even the absence of a belief system). I think it has something to do with what's inside someone or something. (I'm now thinking of Asimov's story, which I can't remember the name of at this moment, where the robot rushes out into the street to save a child after having been found guilty. Sorry, my memory is hazy; I may be remembering an adaptation from "Twilight Zone.")

Perhaps it's our ability to care about someone and to dream about a better world; an ability to see beyond one's self and to recognize that our world contains both our birth and our death.

Your question is serious and is deserving of serious thought. I think it's a very important question.


Don

[vivaldirules]

An overblown mental capacity which led to reason but also ego, rationalization, and delusion. On occasion we can express and savor love and humor. But reason has long since disappeared.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

An overblown mental capacity which led to reason but also ego, rationalization, and delusion. On occasion we can express and savor love and humor. But reason has long since disappeared.

Could you elaborate more on this; I'd like to know your thinking, as I think I can learn something here.

Why has reason disappeared? (Because of ego?)
Aren't there other creatures who also savor love and humor? (Maybe "savor" is the key word here?)


Don