eBook piracy, how common is it?

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Being argumentative for the sake of it then, I guess. I suppose if you never put forward a position of your own but instead simply sit there and tell someone they are wrong, you never have to actually argue your case do you?

Of course you do have. And it actually has nothing to do with "being argumentative". I simply dont share your conviction.

Yes, I agree completely with you for once.

As you obviously don't want to discuss but would rather simply state that you think I am wrong, lets just end this "discussion".

Hmm ... let's just have a look who likes to insult, yells obnoxious and repeatedly argued with an "overall and generally accepted authority" (s)he never even named...
Yes, I agree - we should end this.

[netseeker]

This thread is really much better readable with one specific person added to the "ignore list".

[zerospinboson]

In more amusing news:

"The BBC is reporting that the United Nations' World Digital Library has gone online with an initial offering of 1,200 ancient manuscripts, parchments and documents. To no great surprise, Europe comes in first with 380 items. South America comes in second with 320, with a very distant third place being given to the Middle East at a paltry 157 texts. This is only the initial round, so the leader board can be expected to change. There are, for example, a lot of Sumerian and Babylonian tablets, many of which are already online elsewhere. Astonishingly, the collection is covered by numerous copyright laws, according to the legal page. Use of material from a given country is subject to whatever restrictions that country places, in addition to any local and international copyright laws. With some of the contributions being over 8,000 years old, this has to be the longest copyright extension ever offered. There is nothing on whether the original artists get royalties, however."

[pshrynk]

Let me just step in again and echo HarryT's advice to keep discussions in a more polite and respectful tone. In MobileRead, we try very hard to keep the discussions respectful.

pshrynk - moderator

[Greymage]

Sometimes people just talk past each other.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by Greymage

Sometimes people just talk past each other.

Indeed, people seeking moral absolutes seem incapable of understanding that for many people, the answer to "Is it right or wrong?" is "No." For those of us who assess actions based on their impact and motivation, people who play from a rulebook can be equally inscrutable, if also familiar.

[sirbruce]

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P. Do you think this will be get any better as the less enlightened masses convert from pbooks to ebooks as their primary reading material? Do you think many publishers will want to embrace ebooks if it could mean losing a quarter of their sales?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P. Do you think this will be get any better as the less enlightened masses convert from pbooks to ebooks as their primary reading material? Do you think many publishers will want to embrace ebooks if it could mean losing a quarter of their sales?

But of those 26% how many are downloading copies of pbooks they already own or purchase? How many would likely buy the book they download through p2p? How many, after downloading said book, then go on to purchase the book or other works by the author in the future?

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P.

I'd say more then 60% of the people in this survey buy most of their books - even though they are available (sometimes in better quality) via P2P...

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P. Do you think this will be get any better as the less enlightened masses convert from pbooks to ebooks as their primary reading material? Do you think many publishers will want to embrace ebooks if it could mean losing a quarter of their sales?

Might not want to - question is, would they rather die instead? (For whatever measures of death you like).

[wgrimm]

Originally Posted by HarryT

How does the author get their 5.98p if you illegally download a book?

There was an interesting story in the news yesterday- seems music pirates account for alot of music sales. They might, the story said, be responsible for making up part of the music industry that has been lost due to declining sales.

If publishers price their e-books fairly, they will sell. If not, they won't. Simple. Not many people will pay more for an e-book than they can buy the p-book for at Target (yes, I have seen this silliness on several online e-book sellers sites).

BTW, I haven't heard Amazon complaining much about Kindle sales. Maybe they have discovered this pricing rule.....

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P. Do you think this will be get any better as the less enlightened masses convert from pbooks to ebooks as their primary reading material?

Yes i do really think that it would get better if there would be more competition (which could result in lower prices) and if more ebooks would be legally available. I guess at the moment a lot of people use P2P just because either an ebook isn't available commercially or because they are thinking that a lot of ebooks are overpriced. From my own experience i buy the ebook if it's available for an acceptable price. If an ebook isn't available i consider alternatives like P2P - especially if i've already bought the pBook.

[Paradoxikon]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Since no others seem willing to reply.........

So in a nut shell you(and I imagine the others arguing that "file sharing" is not wrong but who refuse to respond to my question) are admitting that fundamentally, at it's core,"file sharing" is indeed wrong. You simply think it is justified due to the arguments put forward. Kind of like an "ends justifies the means" argument. Glad that is cleared up.

Totally different point and not one I am interested in discussing. I will say you are most likely correct, however, that has nothing to do with the fundamental wrongness or otherwise of "file sharing".

Cheers,
PKFFW

I answer to a few post of this thread.

First : Some do not answer, because they receive the file, once a week, other because they do not want to, etc.. . So what ?

Second : File sharing is not wrong. whatever it means. (i will explain later)

Third : In my previous comment on this thread
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...18685#poststop
The questionning was too much black and white and everything that follow would be such, and therefore useless.

Fourth : Get over it, you are religious. You write and think as one. So are we all.

Fifth : Absolute - no absolute are all absolute. The important is to know our absolute and be willing to change it along the way to better ourselves. If we have no absolute, we cannot build no base.

I will stop here for the moment.
-----------

I like to eat burger, and for many this is wrong. I respect their idea, I do not share that idea but understand their point of view. I do not feel guilty, and enjoy my burger. Talking in term of right and wrong does nothing with the exception of aggravation of both party. We live in a society and should discuss our idea, the why and change ourselves to what is better.

So in the argument you brought forward. Why the need to say it is right and wrong ? What is the purpose ? It sound like evangelism by reasoning.

The purpose of this forum is to discuss and share idea on ebooks and related topics. The topics you brought is a valid one, but your post seem to indicate that you are the right one and everyone else is wrong, even more if they do not answer your post. It look as a tactic to control and bring everyone to think like you. It might not be what you want to accomplish, but that is what it look like and may be just to me.


(whatever it means) We all have moral basis to an extent, and then there is those of society (our laws, etc.). These are always in tension to better either one. So when your question to ask about ethics, right and wrong, cannot be answered properly, without more clarification, discussion of all related matter, and so to be able to change either, our moral basis or law. For either are not totally right and wrong, so to ask a question in such a way as totally right or wrong become useless as data to help understand either our moral ou law.


Sharing of idea, is the way to go. Most of all idea are develop in such environment.
We need to find a way to pay the authors and workers properly, that is the issue.
You know that a lot of copyright are idea stolen from others and it is legal. Is that right ? Legally it is, morally it is not ? That is for me. That is why we need to change some law in our society, not to make it more restrictive with more fine.

How? By talking more about the distribution of what need to be paid, to who, and how? the file-sharing system could become one more way to transact in the future.

There is a lot of change coming, the black and white does not work anymore, unless we become a dictatorship society. That will also mean a elite society. Some will even argue that is the best way to go. :-)

I am not one of those, therefore, for the moment, file sharing is not wrong.

The copyright in my country (if read to the letter) would be wrong to lend a book to someone else. And then it would not hold into court, if i lend my books to my wife, children,, friends, co-worker, acquaintance, and so on, as long as i do not profit from it. ;-)

So another question would be, is it wrong to lend a book ?




Paradoxikon

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P. Do you think this will be get any better as the less enlightened masses convert from pbooks to ebooks as their primary reading material? Do you think many publishers will want to embrace ebooks if it could mean losing a quarter of their sales?

Confidence in the product quality is a big factor, as well. For a lot of us just starting into ebooks, the profusion of different file formats, vendors, and DRM schemes looks more than a little sketchy. When we search up the latest release by our favorite author and see it listed for $8 or $10 or $15(!!!) from a seller we don't know, not knowing the production quality or what format is best, and particularly if we've been burned by crap quality or restrictive DRM on other digital purchases, is it any surprise that we 'try it out' from other sources? The emergence of some industry standards will go a long way toward drying up P2P networks.

As to the "less enlightened masses," most are both clueless and paranoid about peer networks, usenet and the like, and would much rather head to a click-to-buy website than attempt to navigate the inter-underworld.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Let me point out that now 26% of the people in this survey admit they get most of their books via P2P. Do you think this will be get any better as the less enlightened masses convert from pbooks to ebooks as their primary reading material? Do you think many publishers will want to embrace ebooks if it could mean losing a quarter of their sales?

This is a somewhat misleading statistic. One would need to know how many of those 26% would not have acquired the books at all if they would have to pay for them.

You can't lose a sale that you would not have had in any case! I suspect that it is a good deal more than half of them.