Fun with the NRSV Bible

[HarryT]

Ah, so that's why they call him "Burning" Bush!

[Over]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

To bad you can't share.

BOb

Of course he can share. He has to spread the Word!

Besides, if paper Bibles are given for free, why not electronic ones?

[HarryT]

The NRSV is copyrighted.

[Over]

That should be unethical. Worse! It should be immoral!

[ProfJulie]

The complete NRSV Bible in Microsoft Reader format has been available for purchase for quite a while. I bought my copy from Books on Board about a year ago, but BOB does not sell it any more. I bought the book and used ConvertLit to convert it to Mobipocket format.

You can now buy the complete NRSV Bible in Microsoft Reader format from Diesel Books.

[mgrunk]

According to what I researched, the story did not appear in some early Greek translations, but was in the earliest Latin translations. This was from a conversation I had about this w/ a scriptural scholar:

St. Jerome was more than fully aware of the fact that some of the early Greek manuscripts didn't contain the story of the woman caught in adultery. But St. Jerome points out that:

1. Earlier Fathers of the Church were fully familiar with the story, and,

2. All the earliest Latin manuscripts going back to around the year 250 in North Africa have the full text of the Gospel of Luke.

3. Even in the East, it appears in the 3rd century (mid 200's) 'Didascalia Apostolorum', which was written in Syriac - which demonstrates that the story was known in 2nd century Syrian Christianity.

4. The very early Apostolic Father of the Church Papias speaks freely of the story of the woman caught in adultery.

5. St. Jerome - [a Father and Doctor of the Church] in his studies to prepare what became known as 'The Vulgate' - the Bible for the common people who couldn't read Greek -:
Jerome specifically states that he has both Greek and Latin manuscripts containing the story in the Gospel of John. Now Jerome wrote that in the 380's.

6. St Ambrose, Father and Doctor of the Church, who baptized St. Augustine in Milan, Italy, was absolutely fluent in Greek and had access to a vast library of writings of the Church Fathers and Doctors in Greek.
"Ambrose: Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397; born probably 340, at Trier, Arles, or Lyons; died 4 April, 397."

Ambrose - was a scholar of the first rank. He testifies that the story was always famous in the Church. the question came up since there were some Greek copies of the Gospel of John which did not contain the story. But others did.

As a matter of fact, the story appears even in some early copies of St. Luke's Gospel.

Not to start a debate - just a clarification of my understanding.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by mgrunk

According to what I researched, the story did not appear in some early Greek translations, but was in the earliest Latin translations. This was from a conversation I had about this w/ a scriptural scholar:

Not to start a debate - just a clarification of my understanding.

Thank you! I haven't researched it, so your data is useful.

[PastorTonyB]

You know.. you are so right. The NRSV Bible is truly one of the best translations out today. I love it. This translation of the bible makes it so easy to understand for the modern day Christian.

I am a Pastor, and I love to help new christians as well as more mature saints. I always recommend the NRSV Bible. I even made a blog about it at http://nrsvbible.brighterplanet.org

For anyone who is still questioning.. I encourage you to check out my blog about it! It'll help you.

Pastor Bell

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The NRSV is copyrighted.

I can't believe it!
Who on Earth dare to claim Intellectual Property on the Word of God?

[Fledchen]

Originally Posted by Format C:

I can't believe it!
Who on Earth dare to claim Intellectual Property on the Word of God?

Translations can be copyrighted. The NRSV is a translation. Translating a series of ancient religious texts, especially when there are no definitive original documents, is a monumental task requiring multiple people with different areas of expertise. I believe that anyone who undertakes such a task should be compensated for that work.

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by Fledchen

Translations can be copyrighted. The NRSV is a translation. Translating a series of ancient religious texts, especially when there are no definitive original documents, is a monumental task requiring multiple people with different areas of expertise. I believe that anyone who undertakes such a task should be compensated for that work.

Come on, it's not the same.
One thing is "I have worked, and I have to be paid".
Another is "I have created the pater noster and I claim copyright and I.P. on it".
I am not English nor American, but I'm pretty sure that they're not synonyms on neither side of the Atlantic Ocean....

Translation is handwork, not creation of new content! It has to be paid, not copyrighted!!!!

What if I translate the Bible on my own and accidentally end up with the same exact phrase? Can I be sued?




There other perspectives, of course:

If the Holy Bible has been written by the Holy Spirit, like the Catholics Tradition says, then to claim IP and put monetary rights on it, even translated, is definitely simony.

If the Book is nothing more then a book, and it was written by ancient mortal people, like atheists believe, then to put rights on it (albeit legal) is something close to theft (people making money with somebody else's ideas without any compensation for the original creator).

If the modern translator of the text is the actual creator of the content, than the Bible is definitely his own IP, but it opens up a brand new perspective about Faith itself....



What I think is that to put copyright on God's Spell is Evil, from whichever point of view (maybe except the one of the guy who gets the money, who will always find an interpretation of the Word and the Law to morally justify it).

[HarryT]

Whatever your opinions on the rightness or wrongness of it may be, FC, the fact is that a translation of any work - public domain works included - carries its own copyright which is totally independent of the copyright status of the original work. Eg, if you translate, say, Shakespeare into French, then you hold a copyright on that translation (lasting, in most cases, for your lifetime + 70 years), even though the English original is in the public domain.

[sirbruce]

Selected quotes from A Man For All Seasons:

Margaret More: Father, that man's bad.
Sir Thomas More: There's no law against that.
William Roper: There is: God's law.
Sir Thomas More: Then God can arrest him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Whatever your opinions on the rightness or wrongness of it may be, FC, the fact is that a translation of any work - public domain works included - carries its own copyright which is totally independent of the copyright status of the original work. Eg, if you translate, say, Shakespeare into French, then you hold a copyright on that translation (lasting, in most cases, for your lifetime + 70 years), even though the English original is in the public domain.

So, translators are making money, for a very long time, out from works by other people. Without giving them a penny.

And it's much much more than any pirate has ever done.

What's your opinion about it?

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Selected quotes from A Man For All Seasons:

Margaret More: Father, that man's bad.
Sir Thomas More: There's no law against that.
William Roper: There is: God's law.
Sir Thomas More: Then God can arrest him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

I can't see the point.