Firmware Update Kindle firmware 5.16.3 - Page 2

Quoth · 08-31-2023, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

It could also be a step toward eliminating access to content downloaded from Amazon's servers. Doing that, combined with further reducing access to download-and-transfer via USB, would better lock down Amazon's DRM.

Or could be a step toward only using an Amazon program on desktop to communicate. Likely only current Windows and Mac OS.

Copying Apple (iPod, iPhone, iPad etc) and Sony (Minidisc and Digital Paper Tablets) in the past.

I won't update my PW3 models any further.

innocenat · 08-31-2023, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

Or could be a step toward only using an Amazon program on desktop to communicate. Likely only current Windows and Mac OS.

Copying Apple (iPod, iPhone, iPad etc) and Sony (Minidisc and Digital Paper Tablets) in the past.

I won't update my PW3 models any further.

Why would Amazon put in MTP only to move to proprietary protocol later?

tomsem · 08-31-2023, 10:30 AM

Or (with low credence) those reports last year that Scribe would run some variant of Fire OS will come to pass in a future update.

JSWolf · 08-31-2023, 10:35 AM

The release notes really do not give you enough information to know not to update the firmware.

Also what this means is do not buy any new Kindle or you'll get MTP or whatever games Amazon wants to play.

jonathan2022 · 08-31-2023, 10:36 AM

Even if this does happen. These updates will only be for these models. Older models should still have a download via USB option.

jonathan2022 · 08-31-2023, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The release notes really do not give you enough information to know not to update the firmware.

I think that's the idea behind not giving to much info in release notes. Then would avoid them.

Quoth · 08-31-2023, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innocenat

Why would Amazon put in MTP only to move to proprietary protocol later?

MTP is very limited (and is proprietary) and a step towards blocking arbitrary application access.

tomsem · 08-31-2023, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

The change to MTP makes visible folders that were previously hidden. I wonder whether that was a mistake. Using MTP they can easily block all access to system files including cover thumbnails (used by calibre) and Scribe notebooks (forcing access only through their service.)

Hiding files with a file naming convention isn't really hiding anything. To really hide, need to set permissions, which is how access to system files is controlled when it connects as USB storage.

MTP access is separate/different from the file system access. I need to read up on it.

One annoyance, at least on Mac, is that only one MTP client can connect to Scribe at a time. If AFT is connected, calibre cannot connect. If calibre is connected, AFT cannot connect.

It is the same when connecting Fire tablet for USB File Transfer.

I assume on Windows you can have Windows Explorer and calibre at the same time? I'm not set up to check this.

Strether · 08-31-2023, 12:01 PM

For someone who is using their Scribe solely as a reading device, this latest update renders the Scribe pretty much useless, unless Calibre can be changed in some way. On my Mac, it connects to Calibre right away, but will not show the books on the Scribe, nor will it allow new books to be sent to the Scribe. Disconnect is performed by pressing a button on the Scribe.

Obviously should have waited before updating.

Jim

innocenat · 08-31-2023, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

MTP is very limited (and is proprietary) and a step towards blocking arbitrary application access.

MTP is as proprietary as any USB standard. But my point was, why bother implementing MTP just to abandon it a while later for proprietary protocol. It just doesn't make sense engineering-wise.

Quoth · 08-31-2023, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innocenat

MTP is as proprietary as any USB standard. But my point was, why bother implementing MTP just to abandon it a while later for proprietary protocol. It just doesn't make sense engineering-wise.

MTP exposes or allows transfer of what ever the programmer (Amazon's Lab126) decides at the gadget end. It's not "sharing" a filesystem like USB Mass Storage, FTP over USB Networking, MS SMB or NFS.

Quoth · 08-31-2023, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

I assume on Windows you can have Windows Explorer and calibre at the same time? I'm not set up to check this.

You can't on Linux, unless you use Save to Disk. You have to prevent the MTP being mounted for the File manager (any File manager). Long ago on Windows the Media Player would have MTP exclusively, if running. Current Windows Explorer may do something clever. I'd have to prize the Win10 game box off my youngest and test with an Android thing. My three working Android phones, 2 x tablets and Android eink all behave differently, possibly due to Android versions 5 to 11 being different.
The Gadget programmer can maybe do mysterious extra stuff on MTP.

Quoth · 08-31-2023, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

Hiding files with a file naming convention isn't really hiding anything. To really hide, need to set permissions, which is how access to system files is controlled when it connects as USB storage.

But most often USB Mass Storage connects a real FAT32 partition (even if OS etc is on Ext4), because Mac, Windows and Linux all can understand Fat32. Some Macs can't do NTFS unless driver added. Windows certainly has an optional driver for Ext2, but by default no Windows reads any Ext FS.

Fat32 has no permissions.

tomsem · 08-31-2023, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

But most often USB Mass Storage connects a real FAT32 partition (even if OS etc is on Ext4), because Mac, Windows and Linux all can understand Fat32. Some Macs can't do NTFS unless driver added. Windows certainly has an optional driver for Ext2, but by default no Windows reads any Ext FS.

Fat32 has no permissions.

Thanks for the clarifications.

Frogm4n · 08-31-2023, 11:17 PM

I confirmed that on a standard Ubuntu 22.04 install with Gnome that it will automount the Scribe as an MTP device. Calibre would not recognize that the device was connected. I used dconf-editor to turn the USB automount setting off, replugged the Scribe, and Calibre detected it as expected.

On macOS without AFT the Finder saw nothing, as expected, and Calibre detected the Scribe right away.

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08-31-2023, 10:30 AM	#18
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,939 Karma: 27060151 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Or (with low credence) those reports last year that Scribe would run some variant of Fire OS will come to pass in a future update.

08-31-2023, 10:35 AM	#19
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,758 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The release notes really do not give you enough information to know not to update the firmware. Also what this means is do not buy any new Kindle or you'll get MTP or whatever games Amazon wants to play.

08-31-2023, 10:36 AM	#20
jonathan2022 Zealot Posts: 148 Karma: 213232 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: android	Even if this does happen. These updates will only be for these models. Older models should still have a download via USB option.

08-31-2023, 12:01 PM	#24
Strether Guru Posts: 765 Karma: 2825929 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fresno Device: Kindle 1; iPad Air; iPhone 7; Kobo Libra; Kindle Oasis 3	For someone who is using their Scribe solely as a reading device, this latest update renders the Scribe pretty much useless, unless Calibre can be changed in some way. On my Mac, it connects to Calibre right away, but will not show the books on the Scribe, nor will it allow new books to be sent to the Scribe. Disconnect is performed by pressing a button on the Scribe. Obviously should have waited before updating. Jim

08-31-2023, 11:17 PM	#30
Frogm4n Evangelist Posts: 457 Karma: 3579113 Join Date: Jul 2023 Device: Scribe 2022, OA2, PRS-350	I confirmed that on a standard Ubuntu 22.04 install with Gnome that it will automount the Scribe as an MTP device. Calibre would not recognize that the device was connected. I used dconf-editor to turn the USB automount setting off, replugged the Scribe, and Calibre detected it as expected. On macOS without AFT the Finder saw nothing, as expected, and Calibre detected the Scribe right away.