Looking for non-kindle device in the 7-9 inch range for epubs.

[Quoth]

Yes, "fast" eink can even just be black and white, not even 4 levels or 16 levels (not sure how accurate the 14 different greys are!). Also faster is erase of entire panel, then update of whole panel and slowest is update of only one part which then seems to ghost badly (see keyboard).

The Gallery panels, while a kind of eink, or electronic paper, seem to be a very different technology to regular monochrome eink, more than simply having coloured balls rather than purely white and black. While the rear of traditional eink is reflective it's not totally so and thus you can see a faint negative image on the rear of a panel.

If you really want colour or colourised eink for comics etc, you probably need a 7″ or 8″ mono ink and also a regular 10″ approx iPad or LCD or OLED Android too!

Then to create much content (entire novels, video edit etc, serious size computer programs etc) a real PC/laptop at least HD (MacOS, Linux or Windows).

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by DNSB

.

The Kaleido 3 film causes less light to fall on the Carta 1200 screen, making it appear darker. If you increase the lighting, it becomes brighter and the usual "screen" becomes visible.
The same occurs if you look at EInk at dusk and then turn on the light
The contrast remains nearly the same, only the brightness changes.
Each of the existing gray levels becomes darker or lighter to the same extent - only the foil surfaces scatter the light minimally, which reduces the sharpness somewhat.

I sadly was unimpressed by a Onyx Boox Tab Ultra C attempting to display an animation. As near as I could tell, it was using an old mode reverting to black or white for each pixel in comparison to the 16 shades of grey normally used. This results in a massive 8 colours at ~6FPS.

Well I have no problem watching Youtube videos.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

The Kaleido 3 film causes less light to fall on the Carta 1200 screen, making it appear darker. If you increase the lighting, it becomes brighter and the usual "screen" becomes visible.
The same occurs if you look at EInk at dusk and then turn on the light
The contrast remains nearly the same, only the brightness changes.
Each of the existing gray levels becomes darker or lighter to the same extent - only the foil surfaces scatter the light minimally, which reduces the sharpness somewhat.

Well I have no problem watching Youtube videos.

Sadly, the reflectance does not change. And my experience does not agree with yours. Under normal lighting levels, the white on a Kaleido 3 screen is not as reflective as the white on a Carta 1200 or Gallery 3 screen. If I sit my Sage side by side with the Tab Ultra C, the Sage had a whiter white with the same lighting. Something on which a Macbeth reflection densitometer agreed with me when I did a B&W checkboard. Of course, if you are trying to read by a single candle, almost anything would seem brighter.

As for watching Youtube videos at 6FPS in limited colours? Some people are less fussy about quality. Comparing the Tab Ultra C to my iPad Pro, well, there was no comparison. The iPad Pro had decent frame rates, much better colour, etc.

[Quoth]

Capt'n, ye canna beat the laws of physics!

Depends on the size of the candle's wick. You'd need a huge amount of lighting for Kaleido3 and that is with them making the filter more pastel and less dense than Triton.
The reflected light from the top surface becomes an issue.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Sadly, the reflectance does not change. And my experience does not agree with yours. Under normal lighting levels, the white on a Kaleido 3 screen is not as reflective as the white on a Carta 1200 or Gallery 3 screen. If I sit my Sage side by side with the Tab Ultra C, the Sage had a whiter white with the same lighting. Something on which a Macbeth reflection densitometer agreed with me when I did a B&W checkboard. Of course, if you are trying to read by a single candle, almost anything would seem brighter.

Kaleido 3 consists of a Kaleido 3 filter sheet (which cuts light) on a Carta 1200 screen - that's all.
Twilight - dark because of low light vs lighting
And here I photographed Tab Mini C with Tolino Epos 3 (Kobo Sage) side by side. The contrast of the Tab Mini C seems better to me.

As for watching Youtube videos at 6FPS in limited colours? Some people are less fussy about quality. Comparing the Tab Ultra C to my iPad Pro, well, there was no comparison. The iPad Pro had decent frame rates, much better colour, etc.

It's 14-15 frames/second and I hope you enjoy watching a video on a luminous screen in the sun.

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by Quoth

If you really want colour or colourised eink for comics etc, you probably need a 7″ or 8″ mono ink and also a regular 10″ approx iPad or LCD or OLED Android too!

For me the only alternative to an e-reader is a physical book. Reading on a tablet, computer or smartphone is out of the question. Sure they are great devices, but I am incapable of enjoying reading on them (and here I include comics and PDFs as well). Just thinking about it gives me hives.

[Pajamaman]

7" Kobo Libra and 7.8" Onyx Nova are both really nice. The Kobo will have better battery life, the Onyx software will be more flexible, and more expensive.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by cellaris

I sincerely believe that anyone who is truly interested in a colour e-reader (in my case it's pure whim) is not going to wait until 2035 to buy one, no matter how many limitations and deficiencies it may have at present (and no matter how high the price may seem).

I would like a color ereader, but only for comics, so it would have to be about 10". 7.8" is not big enough to be conveniant for comics. But I'd love a 10". But because of the downgrade in monchrome definition, it will be a long time before I get one. But probably not 2035 It would also be great for browsing. That's mainly what I use the 10" Onyx for.

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And here I photographed Tab Mini C with Tolino Epos 3 (Kobo Sage) side by side. The contrast of the Tab Mini C seems better to me.

Apart from the curiosity of the colour, the reason I bought the Tab Mini C is because I had very good references for its (illuminated) screen. I wanted a powerful Android device with a good screen. In my opinion its (iluminated) screen is excellent. Few complaints are going to come from here. I am not going to argue whether it is better or worse than others. Every user has their own tastes.

(Mind you, I'm not going to watch YouTube videos with either the Tab Mini C or the Kobo Sage).

[downeaster59]

I recently bought a Boox Tab Mini C - an "open box" one from eBay that saved me about $50. Color Eink was a curiosity to me, but color was not the main reason why I bought this device. If you compare it to the closest non-color device that Onyx has - the Nova Air 2 - then for $100 more you get 1 GB more of RAM, twice the internal storage, a battery with 2.5x the capacity, a better CPU, and - oh yes - color.

That said, I find the color a nice touch (I think of the colors as pastels) as long as you don't expect too much. But this device has a lot more going for it than color alone.

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I would like a color ereader, but only for comics, so it would have to be about 10". 7.8" is not big enough to be conveniant for comics. But I'd love a 10". But because of the downgrade in monchrome definition, it will be a long time before I get one. But probably not 2035 It would also be great for browsing. That's mainly what I use the 10" Onyx for.

I understand your point. What I wanted to point out with the whole comment is that e-readers, in their early days, were also very poor and that the people who bought them must also have wondered whether it was better to wait for their technology to improve. Some waited and some did not. It is the same with colour e-readers now. Anyone who wants to read comics on an e-reader (not on a tablet or in a physical book) only has the option of black and white or the current dull colour. There are no other options. And between these two I think colour is better, even with its shortcomings.

(I also think that the minimum size suitable for reading comics is 10").

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by downeaster59

I recently bought a Boox Tab Mini C - an "open box" one from eBay that saved me about $50. Color Eink was a curiosity to me, but color was not the main reason why I bought this device. If you compare it to the closest non-color device that Onyx has - the Nova Air 2 - then for $100 more you get 1 GB more of RAM, twice the internal storage, a battery with 2.5x the capacity, a better CPU, and - oh yes - color.

That said, I find the color a nice touch (I think of the colors as pastels) as long as you don't expect too much. But this device has a lot more going for it than color alone.

I fully agree.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It's 14-15 frames/second and I hope you enjoy watching a video on a luminous screen in the sun.

Oddly, I find 14-15 frames per second to exhibit very visible and annoying flickering. As far as I could tell, the Ultra C we were testing used A2 mode when we switched to trying to display a video. A2 mode is B&W only with no grey scaling. This combined with the colour filter array would allow a maximum of 8 colours. A2 mode on a Carta 1200 screen full screen refresh takes 125ms according to eInk's documentation. So a maximum of 8 frames per second in 8 glorious colours with some very noticeable ghosting.

I seldom watch videos outdoors but unless I insist on holding the iPad's screen in direct sun, it works quite well outdoors. I'm more of a sit in the shade and sip a cool drink than a sit out in the direct sun and burn person.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by cellaris

I understand your point. What I wanted to point out with the whole comment is that e-readers, in their early days, were also very poor and that the people who bought them must also have wondered whether it was better to wait for their technology to improve. Some waited and some did not. It is the same with colour e-readers now. Anyone who wants to read comics on an e-reader (not on a tablet or in a physical book) only has the option of black and white or the current dull colour. There are no other options. And between these two I think colour is better, even with its shortcomings.

(I also think that the minimum size suitable for reading comics is 10").

I don't mind the "pastel" colors. I find them attractive. It's more the potential price of a 10", and the downgrade in monochrome. But it would be fun for browsing. I browse more than anything else on my 10" Note. It has saved my eyes.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Oddly, I find 14-15 frames per second to exhibit very visible and annoying flickering.

Then the person who showed you this didn't know how to use the device.
Boox Tab devices only flicker in HD or Regal mode and there isn't the 14-15 fps either

As far as I could tell, the Ultra C we were testing used A2 mode when we switched to trying to display a video.

You tell fairy tales - the Tab series does not know A2 mode, because it uses its own "Super Refresh Technology" and it is hardware based.
I have no idea what the Tab devices are doing there, but any remaining ghosting residue disappears within fractions of a second.