FTC sues amazon over dark patterns

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And there it is. One has to be either an Amazon hater or a cheerleader. There can be no middle ground.

Of course there is. But lumping all complaints against Amazon as a workplace together as 'they are lazy complainers' as you did in post #95 sure ain't it.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Of course there is. But lumping all complaints against Amazon as a workplace together as 'they are lazy complainers' as you did in post #95 sure ain't it.

You wanna quote the part where I called anybody "lazy complainers"?

I will say that you're pretty guilty of some lazy paraphrasing, there.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Let's use some common sense here and deal with realities. If you decide you WANT to work in a warehouse, then realize that it is hard, back breaking work in poor conditions and ALWAYS very low pay. It's NOT rocket science and no special education is required.

It is hard work, but back breaking, hardly. Poor working conditions, no. Uncomfortable when the weather is bad, but I do not consider that poor working conditions. Six months a year here the weather is in the 90's with high humidity. That is just normal and to be endured. I agree that you do not need any "special education", but then almost any job can be done by someone without a higher education if companies would just take the time to train them. It is called OJT. "ALWAYS very low pay", not in my experience. Yes, the work is hard and consequentially turnover tends to be high. The high turnover is not because of low pay. Most warehouses pay more than a lot of white-collar jobs pay.
Apache

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Apache

Six months a year here the weather is in the 90's with high humidity. That is just normal and to be endured.

A temperature of 32C with humidity of 70% has a humidex of 45. Environment Canada lists that as "dangerous; heat stroke possible" and the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety recommends "only medically supervised work".

[theducks]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

A temperature of 32C with humidity of 70% has a humidex of 45. Environment Canada lists that as "dangerous; heat stroke possible" and the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety recommends "only medically supervised work".

I was raised in New Jersey where the Summers were an easy 89F 89%. The only AC was at the 'State Theater' (the towns movie house). Construction did not stop because it got 'warm', (Granted, Nothing like down where Apache lives )

My first Job was delivering inter-office mail in downtown LA (Ca) area where summer days often broke 100F (the Humidity was loooow) and Mail sacks were 80lbs. All the employers were required to supply was water fountains (bubblers) in buildings. (I believe construction/outdoor workers brought their own in their lunch pail)

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

A temperature of 32C with humidity of 70% has a humidex of 45. Environment Canada lists that as "dangerous; heat stroke possible" and the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety recommends "only medically supervised work".

So 100% of outdoor work under those particular conditions in Canada would be done under medical supervision? Or is that recommendation not actually very binding/practiced? Very little landscaping/lawnmowing/painting would get done in the US if similar medical supervision were required.

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Apache

It is hard work, but back breaking, hardly. Poor working conditions, no. Uncomfortable when the weather is bad, but I do not consider that poor working conditions. Six months a year here the weather is in the 90's with high humidity. That is just normal and to be endured. I agree that you do not need any "special education", but then almost any job can be done by someone without a higher education if companies would just take the time to train them. It is called OJT. "ALWAYS very low pay", not in my experience. Yes, the work is hard and consequentially turnover tends to be high. The high turnover is not because of low pay. Most warehouses pay more than a lot of white-collar jobs pay.
Apache

Ok, you would know better than me about working in a warehouse, I never would take such a job. As for on the job training? That is something very few companies want to do any more since they can't afford to lose staff that know the job to waste a whole day training a newbie. They want you coming in with 2 years experience.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Ok, you would know better than me about working in a warehouse, I never would take such a job. As for on the job training? That is something very few companies want to do any more since they can't afford to lose staff that know the job to waste a whole day training a newbie. They want you coming in with 2 years experience.

I guess that depends on the job. There are clearly jobs that get filled seemingly exclusively by the most inexperienced and untrained personnel. Sometimes they want cheap labor, not good labor.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You wanna quote the part where I called anybody "lazy complainers"?

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I think a big part of the "poor Amazon workers" thing is people not really understanding what many manual labor jobs actually entail... Sweating for your pay is not cruel and unusual punishment.

There are complaints about Amazon up and down the chain. As mentioned, the initial comment that started this wasn't about warehouse jobs specifically:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

From what I understand, Amazon has some of the better wages, though obviously it doesn't make up for their horrid working conditions.

And in news reports I have heard about Amazon, even warehouse specific ones, they aren't about heat and cold. I remember complaints for what Amazon calls Time Off Task. Also complaints about inadequate safety equipment during the height of the pandemic. And Amazon has a history of firing employees that complain about working conditions. And of course, Amazon drivers peeing in bottles: Amazon apologizes for denying that its drivers pee in bottles

I shop at Amazon and expect they are about as good or bad as any corporation of their size. But just because they are a convenient place for me to buy crap doesn't mean I will blindly defend everything they do, or think that words against them are being put out there by people with some unreasoned/unwarranted bias against the company.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I will say that you're pretty guilty of some lazy paraphrasing, there.

While I think my paraphrasing was accurate, I will cop to being lazy in general

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So 100% of outdoor work under those particular conditions in Canada would be done under medical supervision? Or is that recommendation not actually very binding/practiced?

I would guess by the fact it is labelled a recommendation, not a law, that the answer is obvious.

Very little landscaping/lawnmowing/painting would get done in the US if similar medical supervision were required.

Your lawnmowing isn't done by medical professionals? A medical degree is de rigueur to be a landscaper in my fancy neighborhood. I have to outsource to Florida's Dr. Phillips Lawn Care & Landscaping.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

While I think my paraphrasing was accurate

Whether accurate or inaccurate, quotation marks shouldn't be used with a paraphrase. That's attributing a statement that in fact someone didn't make. It opens itself to all sorts of misrepresentation, as here.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

A temperature of 32C with humidity of 70% has a humidex of 45. Environment Canada lists that as "dangerous; heat stroke possible" and the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety recommends "only medically supervised work".

Try being a roofer down here in the summers. If the temperature was in the 90's, on a roof it could exceed 150. You had the sun beating down on you and the roof reflecting heat up at you. Staying hydrated and wearing hats was a must. I had a brother-in-law who was a roofer. When I was a lot younger, I would help him if he had trouble finding people for side jobs. He did commercial roofing and would do residential occasionally to make some extra money. People can and will work under the most debilitating conditions. When people complain about their working conditions they should stop and think about others who are not as fortunate.
Apache

[issybird]

If a package got logged into Secaucus at 6:08 PM today, I highly doubt it's getting here by 9 PM. Just saying.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Apache

. When people complain about their working conditions they should stop and think about others who are not as fortunate.
Apache

How about our Servicemen? Patrols / Watches unsheltered. Utility workers: all hours and conditions trying to get it working again. Ther are lots of folk who don't get to work in 'conditioned' places. I worked in Data Centers. There are 2 kinds of aisles: Cold (the rack front ) and Hot (the rack back where server discharge 100+ air. Guess who got to work in the Hot (all the connections are that side)?

[j.p.s]

Well, in Texas, where it can get really hot (and hunid), there used to be local rules mandating water breaks for workers, the governor has signed a state law rescinding those rights.