Seriousness What exactly IS cheating? [Warning: Possible Adult Language] - Page 2

GeoffC · 04-20-2009, 01:55 AM

.... wouldn't know ....

Stitchawl · 04-20-2009, 03:51 AM

"Cheating" is doing something that violates someone's rules. If you and your significant other have agreed to certain behavior when dealing with others, then acting in any manner contrary to that is 'cheating.' If you couldn't feel comfortable telling your SO about your behavior because it goes against what the two (or three) of you have agreed upon, it's cheating. This may or may not include sex, violence, spending money, drinking, gambling, or even taking in stray cats.

Stitchawl

HarryT · 04-20-2009, 03:55 AM

I have a good friend who is an escort (read "high class prostitute"). She tells me that the majority of her regular clients are middle-aged married men whose wives have simply lost interest in sex. Some of those wives know (and approve) of what their husbands are doing; others are doing it behind their wife's back. I suspect that the majority of wives would rather that their husband see an escort (which is a purely "physical" thing) rather than have an "affair" with someone.

Over · 04-20-2009, 06:04 AM

I think one of the pillars of a relationship is comunication. If you see yourself not communicating something with your wife/husband, that should raise a flag and make you wonder why.

About Dr. Drib's example, I don't think looking beautiful women is cheating, because there's no way you can avoid looking at people and apreciate their looks. It's basic human instinct. The way you act on those insticts or the leverage you give for further thoughts, those are the ones that can be tricky. One can "sin" in their hearts too.

Anyway, I can't agree with Xenophon. People are not always wise or prevident about their feelings. It's entirely possible to make WRONG ground rules and only realizing the mistake when it's too late.

There are social, psychological, scientific and religious rules. The religious ones tend to be more strict, but their moral compass is a perfect God. Everything else is more relative. Anyway, whatever rules inspires a couple, those are needed to make an informed and conscious decision.

Dr. Drib · 04-20-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kacir

I have been thinking about it.

Cheating is if you do something you wouldn't be willing to describe to your partner in colourful juicy details.

When I go to a business trip and I visit sauna and sit there naked with naked female strangers and then I go and relax naked in Jacuzzi together with pretty naked female strangers it is no cheating. Because I know that I can tell about it to my wonderful wife and she will not have any objections. In fact I most definitely would describe my "Wellness Center Escapades" and my wife will be happy that I had such a good time.

Why would they have to be "pretty" naked females? If this behavior is both accepted by you and your wife, then it could anyone who is naked: male or female, ugly or pretty, 19 or 100.

Don

slayda · 04-20-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

"Cheating" is doing something that violates someone's rules.

Interestingly, I don't recall that my wife and I sat down and discussed a set of rules. I doubt that many others did either. However one rule (in the Christian marriage ceremony) was "till death do you part". I personally find it ironic that in the US, the morals seem to dictate monogamy but the way it is usually practiced by many is "serial monogamy", i.e. I'll dump this monogamous relationship and begin another. So a question is "How long should the monogamous relationship last and still be considered monogamous?" Could it be a short as a few hours? minutes?

So would you call divorce (for those "till death do us part" people) to be cheating?

Stitchawl · 04-20-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

Interestingly, I don't recall that my wife and I sat down and discussed a set of rules. I doubt that many others did either.

Quite so! But I'll bet we who are in relationships ALL have an unwritten (read: undiscussed) set of rules we live by. We know when/if we've violated the trust our SO's have put on us. Unwritten contracts are still binding contracts.

Stitchawl

DixieGal · 04-20-2009, 10:01 AM

This whole thread is creeping me out. But about the excuse of the wife not being interested in sex anymore, the question should be "why?"

Unless her lack of lustiness is caused by medicines or something physical, then either YOU are not doing something right or she is getting her jollies somewhere else.

First, make sure it isn't something physical. MANY meds will cause a woman's libido to fade, and that is certainly easy to fix with a change of meds.

After you fix any physical probs, then romance and seduce her all over again. Something must have made her like you enough to have married you in the first place.

This should be stamped on your foreheads when you apply for a marriage license: Cheaters will be castrated and the "other woman" will be forced to live with you for the rest of your lives.

Don't worry about the definition of cheating. You will recognize it if you are tempted to try anything wrong.

Sweetpea · 04-20-2009, 10:14 AM

I wouldn't want my husband to stop watching at (what he thinks are) beautiful women. And I'll just look at (what I think are) beautiful men. Why shouldn't you enjoy looking at something you like? We will talk about it (ohh, I saw this beautiful man/woman the other day; did you see that man/woman; etc) and be happy to know that we have each other.

Is it cheating to look? I don't think so. You'd have to bandage your eyes otherwise. Or everybody should dress in bourkas... Devouring somebody with your eyes might be on the brink (that would mean you probably would love to do something more than looking...)

Personally, I think that people that don't want their partner even to look at the other gender, don't feel safe in their relation. They'll probably always afraid that their partner will leave them for somebody "more beautiful".

Lady Blue · 04-20-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

Interestingly, I don't recall that my wife and I sat down and discussed a set of rules. I doubt that many others did either. However one rule (in the Christian marriage ceremony) was "till death do you part". I personally find it ironic that in the US, the morals seem to dictate monogamy but the way it is usually practiced by many is "serial monogamy", i.e. I'll dump this monogamous relationship and begin another. So a question is "How long should the monogamous relationship last and still be considered monogamous?" Could it be a short as a few hours? minutes?

So would you call divorce (for those "till death do us part" people) to be cheating?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Quite so! But I'll bet we who are in relationships ALL have an unwritten (read: undiscussed) set of rules we live by. We know when/if we've violated the trust our SO's have put on us. Unwritten contracts are still binding contracts.

Stitchawl

This is the SHORT version of my views on the subject:

I agree with slayda and Stitchawl. My spouse and I didn't discuss a set of rules either regarding cheating. I pretty much believe that if you feel it necessary to ponder whether you're cheating or not, you're already being unfaithful. That may sound simplistic to many, especially those who are liberal to the extreme (my view only) in their relationship, in which case I don't think they have much going for them in the first place.

Maybe this isn't the best analogy but you know the phrase: "if you have to ask how much, you probably can't afford it?" Well, I think "if you have to ask if it's cheating, it probably is."

slayda · 04-20-2009, 10:57 AM

I think that cheating is not what you think it is but what your spouse thinks it is. It has been my observation that many people who have been married for a good length of time, tend to do what they think their spouse would want them to do when in actuality their spouse may not have nearly so stringant a set of rules.

But there are many things that can take away from a marriage that have nothing to do with sex. A lady's gril friends that she spends too much time with, shopping, chatting, or whatever. (Simce I'm a man I used the woman's role here but the reverse also appliesd.) It may be that the man is a work-aholic and spends too much time away from his wife & children. It may be a mother's total absorption with her children to the exclusion of her husband.

Normally we don't call that cheating but it is IMO more cheating than some sexual affairs when they are discrete and unknown. That affair cheated no one but the exclusion of the partner did cheat the spouse. I think this is why Don started this discussion. There are unwritten rules but since they are unwritten there is no way to "fully" understand them. And yes there are unwritten contracts (usually called "oral contracts" which means they have been discussed, not just assumed that they were "understood".

We've had a nice discussion on the differences between US & EU cultures in a different thread. There are many different cultural differences, one of which is the cultural difference between men and women. The physiology differences sometimes mandate that. E.g. how many women have fussed because a man left the toilet seat up? Now how many of those same women when visiting a man's residence (where no women lived) thought to put the toilet seat back up when they were finished? I can hear the "But that's different!" statements coming from women but is it? This just shows a simple cultural difference between men and women based on different physiology. There are many others.

What I'm getting at is that those things that are "understood" are often "misunderstood".

slayda · 04-20-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Cheaters will be castrated and the "other woman" will be forced to live with you for the rest of your lives.

You're assuming that "cheaters" are all men. They have to have someone to cheat with and they're not all single.

HarryT · 04-20-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

This whole thread is creeping me out. But about the excuse of the wife not being interested in sex anymore, the question should be "why?"

I'm not sure anyone's claiming that this is an "excuse", DG, but, from my friend's experience (and she's in a position to know, after all), it's a simple fact.

Moejoe · 04-20-2009, 11:37 AM

Speaking as someone who's been on the receiving end of cheating, there's only one way I can describe it. It's like waking up from a good dream and realising none of it was real. It strips you of trust and confidence, makes you wary of other people and distrustful. Being dumped is bad enough, everyone goes through that at some point, but being lied to about something so very vital to your existence is a hundred times worse.

Probably my own temperament that causes me to have such a bad reaction. I fall in love easy and fall out very hard

HarryT · 04-20-2009, 11:57 AM

A question for those people who are married:

It's a well-known fact that some people have a high sex-drive, and others don't. If you just weren't interested in sex, but your partner had a strong need for it, would you object to your partner going to see an escort for a purely "physical" experience with no emotional strings attacked?

Speaking as a single person, I can see nothing at all "wrong" with this, personally. It's simply providing a service, like any other service.

04-20-2009, 06:04 AM	#19
Over Wizard Posts: 1,462 Karma: 6061516 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cascais, Portugal Device: Kindle PW, Samsung Galaxy Note Pro 12.2", OnePlus 6	I think one of the pillars of a relationship is comunication. If you see yourself not communicating something with your wife/husband, that should raise a flag and make you wonder why. About Dr. Drib's example, I don't think looking beautiful women is cheating, because there's no way you can avoid looking at people and apreciate their looks. It's basic human instinct. The way you act on those insticts or the leverage you give for further thoughts, those are the ones that can be tricky. One can "sin" in their hearts too. Anyway, I can't agree with Xenophon. People are not always wise or prevident about their feelings. It's entirely possible to make WRONG ground rules and only realizing the mistake when it's too late. There are social, psychological, scientific and religious rules. The religious ones tend to be more strict, but their moral compass is a perfect God. Everything else is more relative. Anyway, whatever rules inspires a couple, those are needed to make an informed and conscious decision. Last edited by Over; 04-20-2009 at 07:38 AM.

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04-20-2009, 01:55 AM	#16
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	.... wouldn't know ....

04-20-2009, 03:51 AM	#17
Stitchawl Opsimath Posts: 12,344 Karma: 187123287 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chiang Mai, Northern Thailand Device: Sony PRS-650, iPhone 5, Kobo Glo, Sony PRS-350, iPad, Samsung Galaxy	"Cheating" is doing something that violates someone's rules. If you and your significant other have agreed to certain behavior when dealing with others, then acting in any manner contrary to that is 'cheating.' If you couldn't feel comfortable telling your SO about your behavior because it goes against what the two (or three) of you have agreed upon, it's cheating. This may or may not include sex, violence, spending money, drinking, gambling, or even taking in stray cats. Stitchawl

04-20-2009, 03:55 AM	#18
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I have a good friend who is an escort (read "high class prostitute"). She tells me that the majority of her regular clients are middle-aged married men whose wives have simply lost interest in sex. Some of those wives know (and approve) of what their husbands are doing; others are doing it behind their wife's back. I suspect that the majority of wives would rather that their husband see an escort (which is a purely "physical" thing) rather than have an "affair" with someone.

04-20-2009, 10:01 AM	#23
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	This whole thread is creeping me out. But about the excuse of the wife not being interested in sex anymore, the question should be "why?" Unless her lack of lustiness is caused by medicines or something physical, then either YOU are not doing something right or she is getting her jollies somewhere else. First, make sure it isn't something physical. MANY meds will cause a woman's libido to fade, and that is certainly easy to fix with a change of meds. After you fix any physical probs, then romance and seduce her all over again. Something must have made her like you enough to have married you in the first place. This should be stamped on your foreheads when you apply for a marriage license: Cheaters will be castrated and the "other woman" will be forced to live with you for the rest of your lives. Don't worry about the definition of cheating. You will recognize it if you are tempted to try anything wrong.

04-20-2009, 10:14 AM	#24
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	I wouldn't want my husband to stop watching at (what he thinks are) beautiful women. And I'll just look at (what I think are) beautiful men. Why shouldn't you enjoy looking at something you like? We will talk about it (ohh, I saw this beautiful man/woman the other day; did you see that man/woman; etc) and be happy to know that we have each other. Is it cheating to look? I don't think so. You'd have to bandage your eyes otherwise. Or everybody should dress in bourkas... Devouring somebody with your eyes might be on the brink (that would mean you probably would love to do something more than looking...) Personally, I think that people that don't want their partner even to look at the other gender, don't feel safe in their relation. They'll probably always afraid that their partner will leave them for somebody "more beautiful".

04-20-2009, 10:57 AM	#26
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	I think that cheating is not what you think it is but what your spouse thinks it is. It has been my observation that many people who have been married for a good length of time, tend to do what they think their spouse would want them to do when in actuality their spouse may not have nearly so stringant a set of rules. But there are many things that can take away from a marriage that have nothing to do with sex. A lady's gril friends that she spends too much time with, shopping, chatting, or whatever. (Simce I'm a man I used the woman's role here but the reverse also appliesd.) It may be that the man is a work-aholic and spends too much time away from his wife & children. It may be a mother's total absorption with her children to the exclusion of her husband. Normally we don't call that cheating but it is IMO more cheating than some sexual affairs when they are discrete and unknown. That affair cheated no one but the exclusion of the partner did cheat the spouse. I think this is why Don started this discussion. There are unwritten rules but since they are unwritten there is no way to "fully" understand them. And yes there are unwritten contracts (usually called "oral contracts" which means they have been discussed, not just assumed that they were "understood". We've had a nice discussion on the differences between US & EU cultures in a different thread. There are many different cultural differences, one of which is the cultural difference between men and women. The physiology differences sometimes mandate that. E.g. how many women have fussed because a man left the toilet seat up? Now how many of those same women when visiting a man's residence (where no women lived) thought to put the toilet seat back up when they were finished? I can hear the "But that's different!" statements coming from women but is it? This just shows a simple cultural difference between men and women based on different physiology. There are many others. What I'm getting at is that those things that are "understood" are often "misunderstood".

04-20-2009, 11:37 AM	#29
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	Speaking as someone who's been on the receiving end of cheating, there's only one way I can describe it. It's like waking up from a good dream and realising none of it was real. It strips you of trust and confidence, makes you wary of other people and distrustful. Being dumped is bad enough, everyone goes through that at some point, but being lied to about something so very vital to your existence is a hundred times worse. Probably my own temperament that causes me to have such a bad reaction. I fall in love easy and fall out very hard

04-20-2009, 11:57 AM	#30
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	A question for those people who are married: It's a well-known fact that some people have a high sex-drive, and others don't. If you just weren't interested in sex, but your partner had a strong need for it, would you object to your partner going to see an escort for a purely "physical" experience with no emotional strings attacked? Speaking as a single person, I can see nothing at all "wrong" with this, personally. It's simply providing a service, like any other service.