FTC sues amazon over dark patterns - Page 4

ZodWallop · 06-23-2023, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

Yes, though:

Foiled again!

issybird · 06-23-2023, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I really could care less about the next day shipping, because I am honest enough to admit that none of the crap I order from Amazon is urgent..

It's not the next-day shipping or the two-day shipping either since for me that's mostly honored in the breach these days (my most recent order, due Monday, came yesterday, just as one example), it's the not having to hit the $25 threshold for free shipping.

Other than that, I'd say the value of Prime for me is that you get offsets through various promotions that over the course of the year pay for a large chunk of the price of Prime. I almost never get the digital credit offer, though. Pity; I grab it when I do. I have no interest in Prime Video.

For all that, next time my Prime anniversary comes up, I'm going to think long and hard about renewing.

DiapDealer · 06-23-2023, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Maybe I misunderstood your post #20, but I thought you were saying that lack of droves of customers abandoning Amazon was some sort of proof that the lawsuit was an automatic nothing burger. If that is your point, I'm saying it ain't necessarily so.

Not direct proof, no. Just proof that they(customers)'d rather wait for their big brother to beat up on Amazon so they can hate themselves a little less for doing business with a company they're not really being forced to business with in the first place. You, yourself, described the stuff you buy from Amazon as "crap."

My point is that any kind of "reckoning" that people seem to hope is in store for Amazon is not going to come from legislation or litigation. It's going to have to come from customers putting their money where their so-called ideals lie. Which in my opinion, means it ain't coming. Because again: customers are by and large as self-serving as the businesses they accuse of being the same.

SleepyBob · 06-23-2023, 12:43 PM

People shouldn't have to decide whether to boycot businesses because of their shady business practices, though. Businesses should be forced to not have shady business practices in the first place. And it's not consumers that can force that change, for the most part.

ZodWallop · 06-23-2023, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You, yourself, described the stuff you buy from Amazon as "crap."

Oh yeah. To be clear, I'm not an Amazon hater and have no interest in the lawsuit either way.

I do think that since Jeff left, Amazon is settling down into being a regular ol' company and some of their shine is coming off. But that's neither here nor there.

I just started replying to your posts to refute (my understanding) of your earlier post #20. FTC doesn't have to wait for customers to abandon a business before they step in. If customers abandoning ship worked, there wouldn't be anything for the FTC to do.

Quote:

My point is that any kind of "reckoning" that people seem to hope is in store for Amazon is not going to come from legislation or litigation.

I agree. But I don't mind government coming in to slap hands that are getting too greedy, even if it won't reform our society overnight.

Quote:

It's going to have to come from customers putting their money where their so-called ideals lie. Which in my opinion, means it ain't coming. Because again: customers are by and large as self-serving as the businesses they accuse of being the same.

I think the reckoning for Amazon will come when some faster, more nimble competitor starts eating their lunch. Walmart used to be the big, bad bully on the block. Then Amazon came along.

Catlady · 06-23-2023, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haertig

Well, faster shipping is one of the advertised benefits of Prime. It's part of what you are paying for with Prime. I'm pretty sure they are deliberately trying to ship Prime orders faster, which implies they are deliberately shipping other orders slower, to allow for Prime to take priority. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. If Amazon didn't do this, Prime subscribers would complain about paying for faster shipping and not getting it. But as things stand, it appears that some non-Prime customers are complaining about not getting Prime benefits for free.

Instead of adding benefits for Prime members, there are several examples of Amazon subtracting benefits from nonmembers. Much slower shipping is one example. Also, Amazon Fresh delivery is no longer available AT ALL without Prime membership (previously there was a $10 delivery fee for nonmembers). The Amazon Store Card used to offer 5% cash back for Prime members, 3% for nonmembers; now nonmembers don't get ANY cash back.

If Amazon thinks these sorts of things are making me more likely to pay for Prime again, they're wrong. They've made me angry instead.

JSWolf · 06-23-2023, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Comcast was (is?) simultaneously the largest cable and ISP in the United States and the most hated company in the US. Your example is not as beautifully obvious as you think it is.

Even if you hate Comcast, of it's your only choice for cable TV and broadband, then that's who you go with.

Desertway · 06-23-2023, 02:17 PM

We are without Prime for the first time in many years. When I started it was $99. Now, with tax it's $148. That crossed the line for us. And yes, it is inconvenient to have to wait until I have $25 in goods to make an order. I got used to instant, effortless, gratification. Somehow I'll muddle through, not getting everything I want on a daily basis without having to go to the store. I managed it for many decades.

DiapDealer · 06-23-2023, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desertway

We are without Prime for the first time in many years. When I started it was $99. Now, with tax it's $148. That crossed the line for us. And yes, it is inconvenient to have to wait until I have $25 in goods to make an order. I got used to instant, effortless, gratification. Somehow I'll muddle through, not getting everything I want on a daily basis without having to go to the store. I managed it for many decades.

That's a refreshingly healthy attitude. Do you think you'll be able to survive all the trickery and deceptive attempts to bring you back into the Prime fold?

Desertway · 06-23-2023, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's a refreshingly healthy attitude. Do you think you'll be able to survive all the trickery and deceptive attempts to bring you back into the Prime fold?

I know that actually reading before clicking is considered an overwhelming burden, but I'm up to the challenge.

afv011 · 06-23-2023, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desertway

And yes, it is inconvenient to have to wait until I have $25 in goods to make an order. I got used to instant, effortless, gratification.

That's not necessarily a bad thing though, if you have to wait to reach the threshold you may think twice about whether you really need that stuff.

I listened to a podcast today about the lawsuit and apparently 90% of people who get prime keep renewing it, so that's why Amazon is pushing so hard to hook you up, once they have you, they know you're unlikely to leave and they have a steady source of income.

Desertway · 06-23-2023, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afv011

That's not necessarily a bad thing though, if you have to wait to reach the threshold you may think twice about whether you really need that stuff.

Agreed. It's happened. While waiting, I wound up buying a couple of items at local shops, one with a cheaper price than Amazon. Others I just let go because there was no urgent need.

Aleron Ives · 06-23-2023, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

Instead of adding benefits for Prime members, there are several examples of Amazon subtracting benefits from nonmembers. Much slower shipping is one example.

I've certainly noticed this. Regular free shipping used to take 2-3 days, so Prime's unlimited 2-day shipping didn't make much sense. Now Amazon seems to deliberately let your order sit in the warehouse for a few days just to punish you for not having Prime.

JSWolf · 06-28-2023, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desertway

We are without Prime for the first time in many years. When I started it was $99. Now, with tax it's $148. That crossed the line for us. And yes, it is inconvenient to have to wait until I have $25 in goods to make an order. I got used to instant, effortless, gratification. Somehow I'll muddle through, not getting everything I want on a daily basis without having to go to the store. I managed it for many decades.

Did you use Prime Video? I'd consider Prime to be $6.17 a month and Prime Video the same.

So if you do use Prime Video, it's not really all that bad a price.

ApK · 06-28-2023, 03:22 PM

We have to decide whether or not to renew in the next few days. For the first time in years, it's not an easy decision.

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06-23-2023, 12:43 PM	#49
SleepyBob Evangelist Posts: 426 Karma: 8522810 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Device: Kindle PW3	People shouldn't have to decide whether to boycot businesses because of their shady business practices, though. Businesses should be forced to not have shady business practices in the first place. And it's not consumers that can force that change, for the most part.

06-23-2023, 02:17 PM	#53
Desertway Addict Posts: 336 Karma: 1701842 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kindle Oasis 3	We are without Prime for the first time in many years. When I started it was $99. Now, with tax it's $148. That crossed the line for us. And yes, it is inconvenient to have to wait until I have $25 in goods to make an order. I got used to instant, effortless, gratification. Somehow I'll muddle through, not getting everything I want on a daily basis without having to go to the store. I managed it for many decades.

06-28-2023, 03:22 PM	#60
ApK Award-Winning Participant Posts: 7,389 Karma: 68329346 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ, USA Device: Kindle	We have to decide whether or not to renew in the next few days. For the first time in years, it's not an easy decision.