Amazon and DRM changes

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they removed Download & Transfer entirely in the near future. If anything, I'm surprised it exists at all.

Yeah, I agree. It feels like a legacy thing nobody at Amazon has yet gotten around to turning off.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Only Amazon wanted to develop their own proprietary formats (well, Kobo did too, but they never stopped supporting epub)

I don't think of kepub as a proprietary format. I could put a (DRM-free) kepub on a Nook and it would be treated like any other ePub.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by innocenat

In 2007 Amazon wouldn't adopt EPUB because it's too new and MOBI was kinda the standard back then. You did agree with this.

In 2011 when Amazon adopt AZW3, you said it was probably too late anyway.

So you think Amazon to invest in supporting EPUB somewhere between 2007 and 2011, when MOBI was still widely used and is working perfectly fine? This make even less sense.

In 2007 the epub was only just released. Sony was using LRF. Windows, Windows CE, Palm OS, Symbian were all using mobi. The initial Kindle ereading seems based on the Mobipocket reader (bought in in 2005). The iPhone was released in 2007 (in Europe was only 2G/GSM, no copy/paste but 3G well established and Smart phones with Mobi ebooks since 1999). Android was bought in by Google and released 2008.

I can't see how going with epub rather than prc/mobi/azw (KF7) based on Mobipocket wouldn't have delayed Kindle release by a year.

It made sense for Amazon to do their own proprietary version of epub (azw3/KF8) which took them till 2011. The main difference is the encryption. Standard epub would have meant Adobe, which they had previously ditched. By 2011 they were the leader so azw3 made perfect sense for Amazon.

Significantly, have they ever licensed the encrypted version of azw3 (KF8) to anyone else?

Then KF10 (KFX) was developed with three aims:
1) Incremental delivery while you read.
2) Multiple levels of encryption, lowest is sharing to other Kindles not registered to you (not on AZW3 or epub with ADE).
3) Better suited to "Whispernet" (see also 1).

I can't see why Amazon would ever support epub unless forced to by regulation. They have their own apps for all platforms except UNIX/Linux and less popular ones. They won't licence encrypted KFX or AZW3 to other eink makers unless forced too. They have no commercial reason.

Yes, I'd like epub2 & 3 on Kindles (not going to happen) and all encrypted .Kindle formats on 3rd party ereaders, but that would require you to register your Boox, Meebook, Pockebook, Nook or Kobo on Amazon. I can't see Kobo or Barnes & Noble wanting that. Amazon makes little income in proportion from ereaders compared to selling ebooks. Why would they support epub?

[innocenat]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Every other ebookstore except Amazon used epub and still does. Only Amazon wanted to develop their own proprietary formats (well, Kobo did too, but they never stopped supporting epub). That says something about their priorities.

And when exactly should Amazon adopt EPUB? As we have been talking, it make total sense timeline-wise why Amazon never support EPUB. Unless they are doing it from the good of their heart (which we all know is almost never the case with any public corporation whatsoever). The same reason Windows doesn't support UTF-8 natively, while both Mac and Linux does natively -- it's all about timeline.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I don't think of kepub as a proprietary format. I could put a (DRM-free) kepub on a Nook and it would be treated like any other ePub.

I didn't know that. If so, you're right, it's not really proprietary.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yeah, I agree. It feels like a legacy thing nobody at Amazon has yet gotten around to turning off.

I keep expecting Amazon to release new Kindle models with wireless charging and no USB port. Problem solved for them.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by innocenat

And when exactly should Amazon adopt EPUB? As we have been talking, it make total sense timeline-wise why Amazon never support EPUB. Unless they are doing it from the good of their heart (which we all know is almost never the case with any public corporation whatsoever). The same reason Windows doesn't support UTF-8 natively, while both Mac and Linux does natively -- it's all about timeline.

I'm not actually that familiar with the timeline, and was a relatively late adopter of ebooks (late 2011). Epub was the most widely used format by then (I had no idea, for example, that mobi was widely used at all). So I just thought it would have made sense for Amazon to adopt epub at some point in the past, if they wanted to expand their ebook market. But perhaps not. Anyway, since then they have only locked their system down ever tighter. Widespread piracy and KU ripping may be partly responsible for that, but I'm sure Overdrive ebooks and Adobe epubs are ripped as much and no one seems to care about those. So possibly Amazon has other reasons for tightening their security and DRM.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they removed Download & Transfer entirely in the near future.

I just bought two books (Black Mouth and Bad Cree) from Amazon due to having a gift card. I downloaded using Download and Transfer, moved the AZW3's into Calibre and they still had DRM. I went through the process twice with the same results.

I didn't try old K4PC since at least one book (Bad Cree) was published in 2023. I returned both (will I get my gift card credit back?) with the reason 'Digital Rights Management issues'. Now I'll buy them from Kobo.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I just bought two books (Black Mouth and Bad Cree) from Amazon due to having a gift card. I downloaded using Download and Transfer, moved the AZW3's into Calibre and they still had DRM. I went through the process twice with the same results.

I didn't try old K4PC since at least one book (Bad Cree) was published in 2023. I returned both (will I get my gift card credit back?) with the reason 'Digital Rights Management issues'. Now I'll buy them from Kobo.

Did you enter the serial number of your Kindle in the plugin settings?

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Did you enter the serial number of your Kindle in the plugin settings?

Oh yeah. I already had it set up from previous Kindle exclusive purchases.

You've made me curious enough to check again. Maybe I didn't. Strange though, as it worked before.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Oh yeah. I already had it set up from previous Kindle exclusive purchases.

Strange. I just bought a bunch of Kindle books two days ago. D&T worked flawlessly.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

You've made me curious enough to check again. Maybe I didn't. Strange though, as it worked before.

Many Kindle books have no DRM at all. I remember having bought a dozen or so once and clicked through them just from curiosity. Only one had DRM.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Many Kindle books have no DRM at all. I remember having bought a dozen or so once and clicked through them just from curiosity. Only one had DRM.

Yeah, the AZWs were in my recycle bin, so I tried again and they worked. I'm deleting them though as I already asked for the refund and rebought the books from Kobo.

[Ma'am-I-Am]

Originally Posted by innocenat

And when exactly should Amazon adopt EPUB? As we have been talking, it make total sense timeline-wise why Amazon never support EPUB. Unless they are doing it from the good of their heart (which we all know is almost never the case with any public corporation whatsoever). The same reason Windows doesn't support UTF-8 natively, while both Mac and Linux does natively -- it's all about timeline.

Epubs can be sent thru Send-to-Kindle (which they convert, of course) so I'm thinking they're playing with the idea of offering epub versions as a choice when purchasing. This might encourage non-Kindle users to buy at Amazon while still supporting Kindles. Non-Kindle users may end up switching to Kindle for the simple convenience of easy delivery with no conversion required.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Ma'am-I-Am

Epubs can be sent thru Send-to-Kindle (which they convert, of course) so I'm thinking they're playing with the idea of offering epub versions as a choice when purchasing.

No, it's a way of getting copies of non-Amazon books! Actually, taking foil hat off, it's just a convenience because for years the KDP upload has worked best with epub rather than doc, docx or mobi.

The epub is an open published spec, so not just Sigil & Calibre produce it but many bought tools used by publishers produce epub.

It doesn't at all imply that they will offer epub for download (extra cost of royalty per copy to Adobe, or expensive bulk licence). Epub downloads will not happen unless publishers and Amazon go entirely DRM free.

What non-Kindle customers?

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