In Defense of English

[hidari]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, absolutely! I think that's one of the strengths of English, the fact that it's happy to "steal" from other languages when it needs a new word. If you have a situation like in France, where there is an official body to protect the "purity" of the language, and the government passes laws to try to "ban" the use of foreign words; that seems like a sign that a language is "in trouble" to me.

Heaps of Languages borrow words All the time. I think English just gets more press because of its notoriety. That said. you are correct.... heaps of words get into the language..... that is the beauty of language.... unfortunately.... Writing has helped stifle some of that beauty.

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by hidari

Unforturnately, People think English is an Easy Language to learn. It is not. No language is...

Agreed.

[CathalMagus]

Back to the original post, I actually quite like 'nother', but only when it's used tongue-in-cheek. It probably originated as a joke to begin with (I was reminded of the very elegant turn of phrase which was common, historically, in the Southern states of America when I watched "Ride with the Devil").

The only real problem with substantial changes in idiom, grammar and spelling across the whole English language, is that it will make the majority of recent literature inaccessible to future readers. (And I've studied Old and Middle English in University, so I know how far a language can drift...)

And as for American spelling without the 'u'... I personally used to find it perplexing: I would always read 'labor' and hear lah-borr rather than lay-burr in my mind... I'm used to it now, of course.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by CathalMagus

Back to the original post, I actually quite like 'nother', but only when it's used tongue-in-cheek. It probably originated as a joke to begin with (I was reminded of the very elegant turn of phrase which was common, historically, in the Southern states of America when I watched "Ride with the Devil").

The only real problem with substantial changes in idiom, grammar and spelling across the whole English language, is that it will make the majority of recent literature inaccessible to future readers. (And I've studied Old and Middle English in University, so I know how far a language can drift...)

And as for American spelling without the 'u'... I personally used to find it perplexing: I would always read 'labor' and hear lah-borr rather than lay-burr in my mind... I'm used to it now, of course.

actually i like "nother" used tongue in cheek as well. and it reminds me of a story i read somewhere explaining that for instance the english word "apron" used to be "napron" (from french "napperon", small table cloth), and somehow "a napron" became "an apron" (sorry, i don't remember the exact details). perhaps the same thing happened to "nother". (my tongue is in my cheek for the last bit.)

[krisk]

well I guess that's where nappies come from!

[slayda]

How do you say "nother" with your tongue in your cheek. That seems impossible to me.

It comes out more like "mawtha" for me.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by slayda

How do you say "nother" with your tongue in your cheek. That seems impossible to me.

like this : "mfvf".

[GeoffC]

it's not nother - but nuther ....

[YGG-]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

actually i like "nother" used tongue in cheek as well. and it reminds me of a story i read somewhere explaining that for instance the english word "apron" used to be "napron" (from french "napperon", small table cloth), and somehow "a napron" became "an apron" (sorry, i don't remember the exact details). perhaps the same thing happened to "nother". (my tongue is in my cheek for the last bit.)

Same for "adder" : a nadder => an adder...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by hidari

Unforturnately, People think English is an Easy Language to learn. It is not. No language is...

I have a friend who teaches both English and German as a foreign language, and he tells me that his experience is that people find it easier to learn the basics of English, because it's a largely uninflected language (ie word endings don't change [much] with the role that a word plays in a sentence), but it's an extremely difficult language to gain "fluency" in. German, on the other hand, is much more difficult for beginners, because you have to learn far more grammar than you do with English, but once you're past the basics, it's easier than English to get fluent in.

[tirsales]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I have a friend who teaches both English and German as a foreign language, and he tells me that his experience is that people find it easier to learn the basics of English, because it's a largely uninflected language (ie word endings don't change [much] with the role that a word plays in a sentence), but it's an extremely difficult language to gain "fluency" in. German, on the other hand, is much more difficult for beginners, because you have to learn far more grammar than you do with English, but once you're past the basics, it's easier than English to get fluent in.

Well, my experience is similar - I am much more fluent (and I cant remember problems with it) in German then with English ^^

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by YGG-

Same for "adder" : a nadder => an adder...

right ! thanks. there were several of them in fact, but i can't remember the others.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

right ! thanks. there were several of them in fact, but i can't remember the others.

"uncle" is another one. In Shakespeare's time it was "a nuncle"

I think my all time favourite "word change" has to be the word "butterfly", which was originally "flutterby". Isn't that just a beautifully descriptive word for what a butterfly does?

[Sparrow]

It's all to do with the nasal shift -apparently ?!

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"uncle" is another one. In Shakespeare's time it was "a nuncle"

I think my all time favourite "word change" has to be the word "butterfly", which was originally "flutterby". Isn't that just a beautifully descriptive word for what a butterfly does?

It actually makes more sense! I often wondered why the word was "butter"fly! I have always preferred the Spanish word, "Mariposa". It just seems prettier to describe something so lovely!!

I think a lot of words that have changed over time has to do with the laziness we use when speaking. We (I know I am lumping everyone together, it is just to make a general point and not intended to be offensive in any way to those of you who are much more eloquent speakers than I am ) slur words together or shorten them to say what we have to say. Growing up in Chicago I never noticed that we all spoke so quickly. Whenever I visited my relatives in southern Illinois, though, they would repeatedly ask my to slow down when I was talking. It drove me crazy, because I always thought they were talking too slowly and just wanted them to get to the point! I still get the occasional requests to slow down from sales clerks, particularly when I am placing a phone orders.

Kaz