Paper books still have an advantage

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I guess you and I have interacted with a pretty different crowd. Most people who use the phrase "real book" here (after ebooks have been mentioned) specifically mean "something that is a book, as opposed to something that is not a book". I'm willing to believe that's different in your corner of the world, as ebooks generally seem to be vastly more popular in the US than in Europe. In my country there is a real snobbish attitude toward ebooks, that possibly no longer exists in the US.

Okay. I guess that would explain our different views on this subject. Sorry people have treated you (and others here) with disrespect over this. There are many advantages of eBooks over paper books but (for many) there are also disadvantages. Some people (including me) enjoy the smell of books, the typography, and the heft and feel of them. I would even go further and say there is something special about a book printed with a letter press rather than an offset press, you can actually feel the indentation of the letters. That said, I was able to buy a 20 volume eBook encyclopedia, originally printed in the early 20th century, for $2.99 on Amazon, and I can carry it anywhere. Along with hundreds of other books. So that's a huge advantage for eBooks. Neither are fake, but they're definitely different.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by rcentros

People with vision problems aren't going to be reading eBooks either.

Of course they do. Many people have posted here that they can no longer read paper books, because they can't enlarge the font, but they can and do read ebooks.

Definitions can and should change, when it's clear that they no longer fit the current situation.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Okay. I guess that would explain our different views on this subject. Sorry people have treated you (and others here) with disrespect over this. There are many advantages of eBooks over paper books but (for many) there are also disadvantages. Some people (including me) enjoy the smell of books, the typography, and the heft and feel of them. I would even go further and say there is something special about a book printed with a letter press rather than an offset press, you can actually feel the indentation of the letters. That said, I was able to buy a 20 volume eBook encyclopedia, originally printed in the early 20th century, for $2.99 on Amazon, and I can carry it anywhere. Along with hundreds of other books. So that's a huge advantage for eBooks. Neither are fake, but they're definitely different.

Of course they're different, and everyone can like what they like. What I resent is trying to make my preference somehow less valid. And yeah, they really do that here. There is a well liked and popular author here who only allows his books to released on paper, no digital edition, and has said so in public. He's not the only one, just the best known. I guess this attitude has made me somewhat bitter about the issue over the years.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Of course they do. Many people have posted here that they can no longer read paper books, because they can't enlarge the font, but they can and do read ebooks.

Point taken.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Definitions can and should change, when it's clear that they no longer fit the current situation.

When definitions become too broad, they become worthless. There's nothing wrong with referring to paper books as "books" (or even real books) as opposed to eBooks or electronic books (which are definitely different). Saying they're both the same because they both contain words ignores their very real differences.

[Asawi]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I've never met a single person in my life who has been apologetic about preferring paper books.

Well, I have met several! Imagine how different experiences can be! And when I mentioned my experiences with "paper book people" in the beginning of the topic I got (not from you!) "Wow. You must not get around very much." a statement that I find mildly offending. I actually "get around" quite a lot (as I'm sure you do too). And yet our experiences differ so much. Why? Maybe it's geographic, maybe it's the circles we interact with, maybe it has to do with our own actions and attitudes, maybe... I don't know, and it's not important. The important thing is that our mileages DO vary!

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Of course they're different, and everyone can like what they like. What I resent is trying to make my preference somehow less valid. And yeah, they really do that here. There is a well liked and popular author here who only allows his books to released on paper, no digital edition, and has said so in public. He's not the only one, just the best known. I guess this attitude has made me somewhat bitter about the issue over the years.

I still can't understand why anyone would let someone else determine their supposed validity or make them feel bitter. I just figure if someone is discourteous or ignorant, that's their problem, not mine.

As for an author who won't publish eBooks, that's their choice. It seems shortsighted and silly but, still, it's their choice. As you've mentioned, the attitude about eBooks in Europe must be much different than in the United States.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by rcentros

When definitions become too broad, they become worthless. There's nothing wrong with referring to paper books as "books" (or even real books) as opposed to eBooks or electronic books (which are definitely different). Saying they're both the same because they both contain words ignores their very real differences.

Nope, I'll never agree with this. Paper book is a paper book and ebook is an ebook; both are books and neither is "more" or "more real" book than the other. And that's the hill I'm willing to die on.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I still can't understand why anyone would let someone else determine their supposed validity or make them feel bitter. I just figure if someone is discourteous or ignorant, that's their problem, not mine.

Because people are as different as their preferences. You obviously aren't particularly easily ruffled; I go up in flames like a volcano at the slightest provocation. Age has nothing to do with it, it has made my temper worse, not better. It's just the way I am.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Asawi

Well, I have met several! Imagine how different experiences can be! And when I mentioned my experiences with "paper book people" in the beginning of the topic I got (not from you!) "Wow. You must not get around very much." a statement that I find mildly offending. I actually "get around" quite a lot (as I'm sure you do too). And yet our experiences differ so much. Why? Maybe it's geographic, maybe it's the circles we interact with, maybe it has to do with our own actions and attitudes, maybe... I don't know, and it's not important. The important thing is that our mileages DO vary!

Obviously there's no such thing as reality at all, it's all our imagination.

I know a couple who quarrels often about any number of minor things and sometimes, after they've quarreled, they consult the recordings of their security camera, to be clear who did and said what and who is right and who is wrong. Guess what... watching the recordings never solves anything, because they see and hear totally different things there.

(if the above sounds childish, they're not a young couple. They're about 60. )

[John F]

Originally Posted by rcentros

...


Except no one in the "real" world refers to a book as a "pbook." They refer to a paper book as a book and an electronic book as an ebook.

...

In the end, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. We live in different worlds. In the "real" world I live in, people refer to both (ebooks and pbooks) as books when a distinction isn't necessary.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by theducks

I was talking about the ones you can only read with a special app while connected to their servers.

But I won't buy any of those. I may borrow such. But never buy.

[Asawi]

Originally Posted by John F

In the end, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. We live in different worlds. In the "real" world I live in, people refer to both (ebooks and pbooks) as books when a distinction isn't necessary.

Seems like we live in the same world!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by gmw

Being primed to receive insult means raising argument where there may not be any need.

You keep saying things like this as if I (or others) don't already know it. Or as if being perfectly capable of being able to distinguish between intended insult and miscommunication somehow implies "being primed to receive insult". A does not equal B. I'm not primed to receive insult. I'm perfectly capable of letting communication breakdowns (even borderline questionable ones) slide. However...

Originally Posted by gmw

Whereas failing to recognise an intended insult (if it was truly intended) typically just annoys the one sending the insult.

This has not been my experience. In my experience, ignoring (truly) intended insults only serves to enable the insulter. I prefer to let such a person know that behavior won't fly with me.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by rcentros

People with vision problems aren't going to be reading eBooks either. Fortunately there are still audio books.

You do realize that vision loss is a spectrum and that legally blind people can sometimes still see a bit? They may be able to handle large print on an eReader but not small text of a paper book.

[arjaybe]

Just wondering if the bible qualified as a book when it was all parchments and scrolls.