Amazon and DRM changes

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You could always just get a used eink Kindle to add to your account. It will pay for itself if you get the digital credits anyway and use them towards ebooks.

I'm just going to move away from buying my books at Amazon. The points are a beta program. The books I bought are available from Kobo.

I had thought of buying an old Paperwhite because I'm curious about using a Kindle. But I don't want to feel like I'm buying a Kindle just for the privilege of giving Amazon more of my money.

[darryl]

For those of you having problems returning I suggest you contact Customer Service. I've found chatting with them nearly always produces some result, even if only a small account credit. Amazon CS is not what it used to be, but it still seems to be ahead of the opposition.

I'm not interested in purchaing books from which I can't remove DRM. The 1984 debacle and the number of stores ceasing to trade in the past in my view makes it only prudent to keep a DRM free copy for personal use. I believe that Amazon has in the past tolerated DRM removal as it could sell its e-books to users of Kobo and other devices. I think its adaptive DRM has been at least partly driven by the demands of publishers participating in its textbook rental business, and partly a desire to experiment how much if any business it may lose through these measures. The reality seems to be that K4PC, Mac and the various Kindle apps mean that customers do have the option to purchase and read their Kindle books. Just how important is it to how many customers to be able to remove DRM and read on other platforms. If Amazon find it is costing them business I can see a compromise where it allows download of most books on earlier app versions but continues to require later versions for its high price textbooks and textbook rentals. It also makes some sense for them to haavily protect library borrows and KU books, at least where the author asks for that. Sadly, I expect that few poeple will care and removing DRM will become increasingly more difficult.

Given the low cost of old e-ink Kindles I think for many it may be a worthwhile investment to purchase and register one on your account. As I understand it any model from the Kindle Keyboard up to the first generation Paperwhite support KF8 but not KFX, meaning that Amazon must supply KF8 so long as it continues to fully support these models.

Good luck everyone.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by hyegeek

I per-ordered a book in December that was going to be published (DRM Free) in January. In the mean time, they changed all the rules and when I went to return it (no DRM option on the return for me) I was told it was past the return window. The return window clock started when I per-ordered, not when it was actually available.

Interesting intel. I pre-ordered a book in January just before it was due to be published and every week since then its publication date has been pushed out another week. Just yesterday, as an example, it still showed a publication date of tomorrow, but now it’s a week from tomorrow. Since the hardcover was published last June, I assume it’s a digital issue.

I can still cancel but don’t want to do that, as I locked in a very nice price. But this makes me wonder if the return window clock has already expired. I have no plans to return it, unless there are issues with the digital copy which is not impossible under the circs.

Well, we’ll see. At this point, I’m not really expecting to get it at all.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by darryl

For those of you having problems returning I suggest you contact Customer Service. I've found chatting with them nearly always produces some result, even if only a small account credit. Amazon CS is not what it used to be, but it still seems to be ahead of the opposition.

I'm not interested in purchaing books from which I can't remove DRM. The 1984 debacle and the number of stores ceasing to trade in the past in my view makes it only prudent to keep a DRM free copy for personal use. I believe that Amazon has in the past tolerated DRM removal as it could sell its e-books to users of Kobo and other devices. I think its adaptive DRM has been at least partly driven by the demands of publishers participating in its textbook rental business, and partly a desire to experiment how much if any business it may lose through these measures. The reality seems to be that K4PC, Mac and the various Kindle apps mean that customers do have the option to purchase and read their Kindle books. Just how important is it to how many customers to be able to remove DRM and read on other platforms. If Amazon find it is costing them business I can see a compromise where it allows download of most books on earlier app versions but continues to require later versions for its high price textbooks and textbook rentals. It also makes some sense for them to haavily protect library borrows and KU books, at least where the author asks for that. Sadly, I expect that few poeple will care and removing DRM will become increasingly more difficult.

Given the low cost of old e-ink Kindles I think for many it may be a worthwhile investment to purchase and register one on your account. As I understand it any model from the Kindle Keyboard up to the first generation Paperwhite support KF8 but not KFX, meaning that Amazon must supply KF8 so long as it continues to fully support these models.

Good luck everyone.

Don't buy a PW1. If it ever comes to the point where you need to use the Kindle to download KF8, you won't get a usable eBook with the PW1. Any of the earlier KF8 only Kindles will work.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Interesting intel. I pre-ordered a book in January just before it was due to be published and every week since then its publication date has been pushed out another week. Just yesterday, as an example, it still showed a publication date of tomorrow, but now it’s a week from tomorrow. Since the hardcover was published last June, I assume it’s a digital issue.

I can still cancel but don’t want to do that, as I locked in a very nice price. But this makes me wonder if the return window clock has already expired. I have no plans to return it, unless there are issues with the digital copy which is not impossible under the circs.

Well, we’ll see. At this point, I’m not really expecting to get it at all.

Is this an issue with the Kindle version or is the ePub also late?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is this an issue with the Kindle version or is the ePub also late?

Kindle. Kobo shows it as available, at more than quadruple the price I’ve locked in at Amazon.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by issybird

Kindle. Kobo shows it as available, at more than quadruple the price I’ve locked in at Amazon.

There is your hint. They probably try to delay it so you cancel and buy at full price from Kobo.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Don't buy a PW1. If it ever comes to the point where you need to use the Kindle to download KF8, you won't get a usable eBook with the PW1. Any of the earlier KF8 only Kindles will work.

That is only if you try to remove DRM from KU. For regular purchases any eink Kindle will do with dl&transfer.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

That is only if you try to remove DRM from KU. For regular purchases any eInk Kindle will do with dl&transfer.

For now. Buying a PW1 is not future proofing. We don't know if Amazon will take away the ability to download KF8 from the website. So if you are buying a Kindle to be able to download, a PW1 will work for now, but if Amazon was to take away KF8 downloads, then you would need an earlier Kindle.

So it's best to just get an earlier Kindle to make sure you are future proof.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

For now. Buying a PW1 is not future proofing. We don't know if Amazon will take away the ability to download KF8 from the website. So if you are buying a Kindle to be able to download, a PW1 will work for now, but if Amazon was to take away KF8 downloads, then you would need an earlier Kindle.

So it's best to just get an earlier Kindle to make sure you are future proof.

I think future proof is overstating the insurance value of earlier Kindles. Amazon may well feel, for example, that having offered upgrades to owners of older Kindles they’ve done as much as they ought, and stop supporting them. Or just stop supporting them. No device lasts forever. They’re all just a case of “work[s] for now.”

[ownedbycats]

Sometimes I wonder if Amazon is leaving the download & transfer/copy the file from Kindle loophole open just long enough for everyone to rush out and buy one before they close them...

[haertig]

"To future proof, buy the oldest Kindle you can find."

That just doesn't sound logical. And it's not. Amazon could kill KF8 in a heartbeat. They could kill MOBI in another heartbeat. And they could kill Download And Transfer for all books in yet another heartbeat.

This is not future proofing, it is speculating.

But, since old Kindles don't cost much, it may indeed be worthwhile speculation. If speculation fails - well, everyone can always use another paperweight or a gag gift to give out at a party.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by haertig

Amazon could kill KF8 in a heartbeat. They could kill MOBI in another heartbeat. And they could kill Download And Transfer for all books in yet another heartbeat.

Why do I get a feeling that even when they do that there will be less bitching about it than there was when Barnes and Noble changed their DRM?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Why do I get a feeling that even when they do that there will be less bitching about it than there was when Barnes and Noble changed their DRM?

We were more optimistic back then. Now we're old, cynical and jaded.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Why do I get a feeling that even when they do that there will be less bitching about it than there was when Barnes and Noble changed their DRM?

Because we learned from B&N. It was a bit of a surprise for many people when they did it. So at least some people (myself included) decided it would be a good plan to buy and de-DRM more books than they could immediately read. Guessing that sometime in the future Amazon and other book retailers would make a move to lock us deeper into their ecosystems. When this prediction comes to pass, those that prepared will simply stop buying any more eBooks. We already have enough to keep us happily reading for the rest of our lives.