Amazon and DRM changes

[Ma'am-I-Am]

Originally Posted by greywun

What about borrowed books from Kindle Unlimited?

Aaand we're back to square one.

[Ma'am-I-Am]

A few of things:
I don't think arguments about the price of ereaders belong in this thread.
This KU change has made me more interested in deDRM. I now have questions and want to participate, if possible.
I'm tempted to keep DRMed copies of KU. I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm feeling dragonish. Anyone else feeling that way?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Ma'am-I-Am

I'm tempted to keep DRMed copies of KU. I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm feeling dragonish. Anyone else feeling that way?

No. Why? What's the point of keeping DRMed copies? You can never read them on anything besides your current Kindle. And Amazon wouldn't care.

BTW, I don't have KU, as it's not and will probably never be available in my country.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Ma'am-I-Am

I'm tempted to keep DRMed copies of KU. I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm feeling dragonish. Anyone else feeling that way?

That just seems... pointless.

I did recently download all my Kindle eBooks and import them (DeDRM'd) into a backup library. As I occasionally edit the files, it doesn't hurt to have a copy of the originals.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Unseen Entities

Unless there is a hardware reason PW1 and earlier cant support KFX I'm going to assume this can happen to them at any time too.

If Amazon really wanted to it seems like updating older devices for KFX and then making all downloads KFX only would be an effective way to further lock people into their ecosystem.

It is not impossible, but I very highly doubt it. There are signs that the Kindle development group is working at capacity as it is. And I doubt that Amazon is going to throw more resources their way.

Since Amazon has stated that they will no longer support Kindles with software updates for more than four years after they are last sold it seems far more likely that they will just stop delivering books to those devices at some point saying that they are too old to support KFX and KFX is the only format available for new books.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Lys

But I don't see any reason to say "no, I won't buy from them now because I don't know what they will do in 2 years' time".

I was talking more about jumping from Amazon to Kobo by abandoning my Kindle and buying a Clara. But I didn't really make that clear. I have no problem buying BOOKS from any retailer, as long as I can remove the DRM from those books, convert them, and read them on the device of my choice. Even if that ability to de-DRM is only temporary. As long as I can de-DRM my most recent purchase, I'm good with that.

But what I won't do again is buy a DEVICE for entry into a walled garden. I didn't think I was doing that when I bough my Nook, but that's what things eventually evolved to. I didn't think I was doing that when I bought my Kindle, but things certainly appear to be moving in that direction with Amazon's recent changes. For example, I certainly won't be trying to find an older, used Kindle that supports KF8 but not KFX as a last ditch entry point into Amazon's walled garden. Nor I will be buying a Clara to get into Kobo's garden, which apparently they haven't started building walls around yet. Who knows, I might end up buying a Clara if my current Kindle gives up the ghost. But that will be only as a GENERIC EREADER that I can use to read purchases from anywhere, not as an entry point into a garden that may be starting to have walls built around it.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by haertig

I was talking more about jumping from Amazon to Kobo by abandoning my Kindle and buying a Clara. But I didn't really make that clear. I have no problem buying BOOKS from any retailer, as long as I can remove the DRM from those books, convert them, and read them on the device of my choice. Even if that ability to de-DRM is only temporary. As long as I can de-DRM mymost recent purchase, I'm good with that.

But what I won't do again is buy a DEVICE for entry into a walled garden. I didn't think I was doing that when I bough my Nook, but that's what things eventually evolved to. I didn't think I was doing that when I bought my Kindle, but things certainly appear to be moving in that direction with Amazon's recent changes. For example, I certainly won't be trying to find an older, used Kindle that supports KF8 but not KFX as a last ditch entry point into Amazon's walled garden. Nor I will be buying a Clara to get into Kobo's garden, which apparently they haven't started building walls around yet. Who knows, I might end up buying a Clara if my current Kindle gives up the ghost. But that will be only as a GENERIC EREADER that I can use to read purchases from anywhere, not as an entry point into a garden that may be starting to have walls built around it.

You don't have to buy a Kobo reader to buy, download and deDRM books from the Kobo store. You can do all that without a Kobo device or app.

[ownedbycats]

On the device end, one of the recent Kobo firmwares added a "sideloaded mode" that doesn't need an account.

EDIT: Here's a post:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...19&postcount=9

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

On the device end, one of the recent Kobo firmwares added a "sideloaded mode" that doesn't need an account.

Amazon’s market position allows them to get away with customer unfriendly practices that they believe benefit their bottom line. Kobo counters by being the more open and flexible alternative.

To quote Star Wars, “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by haertig

But what I won't do again is buy a DEVICE for entry into a walled garden.

Why would you do that in the first place? The whole point of removing DRM is to read the books on whatever device you prefer. Then you can buy whatever device you like best.

I started on a Nook Simple Touch with Glowlight because I liked its features best. I bought from B&N because they made it easy to back-up purchased books. When B&N released the subpar Nook Glowlight, I bought a Kobo Aura. And when B&N changed their DRM scheme, I moved over to Amazon.

Choice of device has never been tied to which store I will purchase from.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Ma'am-I-Am

I'm tempted to keep DRMed copies of KU. I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm feeling dragonish. Anyone else feeling that way?

If you want to keep copies of books you have read, you should buy them rather than using KU. That's my opinion.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Choice of device has never been tied to which store I will purchase from.

It is now, though, with Amazon. You need a physical Kindle to deDRM new books.

Fortunately no device is needed with Kobo or other epub stores (Google Play, Ebooks.com and the like).

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

It is now, though, with Amazon. You need a physical Kindle to deDRM new books.

Not for me. I will not buy books from Amazon when they shut down K4PC 1.17. I stopped buying from B&N when they became too difficult to work with. Now I will stop buying from Amazon.

[C-novice]

If it doesn't already exists on this site somewhere, perhaps it might be worthwhile that we create a reference list of e-book stores other than Amzn that we can shop for books that we prefer.

So far I can think of kobo, smashwords, Google Play, ebooks.com, authors who sell direct from their sites as already stated in this thread, check out the main publishers' sites [ones that Amzn do not own] etc.

But we are still going to have the problem of authors whose work we like that are exclusive to Amzn. Give them up until their works are available elsewhere.

For those of us who will drop Amzn eventually, we could, as suggested elsewhere in this thread, send a very courteous email to them letting them know the reason they won't be supported by us anymore. Likely won't matter to them but it would be something for them to think on when sales / royalties decrease.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Why would you do that in the first place?

I wouldn't. I said that is what it "evolved into". I bought a Nook and was happily buying books for it from Barnes & Noble. Because that was simple and convenient - I didn't buy the Nook specifically for B&N book purchases per se. I downloaded all by B&N purchases to my computer for backup. I knew those downloads contained DRM, but I was naive enough back then to not fully comprehend what that meant. I had my Nook. And I had my backed up books that I could read on my Nook. All was good. Or so I thought. At the time I bought my Nook I believe the B&N bookstore had more titles available than the Amazon Kindle bookstore.

Then B&N removed the capability to download to your computer for backup. You were forced to download using the Nook only. At that point my brain started thinking, "this can't be good for the long term". Then I found that you could not copy the books from your Nook to your computer. You plug the Nook into the computer with the USB cord and you could not even see the books to attempt to download them. Then I found that you could transfer the books from internal memory to an SD card (you did this via the built-in Nook software). You still couldn't see the books, even on the SD card, when you connected the Nook to your computer. But you could pull the SD card out of the Nook and insert it into a card reader, and THEN you could see the books for copying to your computer. So I did exactly that. My brain was in high gear thinking about what B&N's ultimate goal was here. So I investigated how to remove their DRM. I learned how, and did that, then decided I didn't want to deal with B&N any longer. My Nook had EVOLVED INTO the entry point for their walled garden. I didn't buy it as such in the beginning, but that's what they turned it into over time.

So I bought a Kindle and gave Amazon a try. But the first thing I learned how to do, even before purchasing the Kindle, was how to remove Amazon's DRM. I didn't want to get into that B&N mess again. All was good for many years. But now, Amazon appears to be following the B&N path of crippling direct computer downloads and forcing you to use their device and only their device. The Kindle is EVOLVING INTO something that I no longer like. I will keep using mine as long as it keeps working. It is permanently in airplane mode. It does not know the password to access my WiFi. My router is set to block any attempts to connect from the Kindle's MAC address. Amazon is not going to force a download of new firmware on me that could cripple the capabilities that my Kindle currently has. I know my Kindle will eventually die. When it does, I will begin a search for a device that can display non-DRM EPUBs purchased from anywhere, that are side loaded to it. If that type of device disappears in the future, then it's probably back to paper books for me. I don't plan to deal with eBook walled gardens ever again.