Amazon and DRM changes

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Rhooo

Now I'm stuck with a very narrow band of viable products to get. Too old a Kindle and it can't access the store and is de facto blacklisted from KU. Too new a Kindle and books can't be copied off it. So I'm now camping Ebay listings for PW2's, cursing the bidding system to high-heaven.

It's almost like Amazon is becoming too big a pain in the ass to deal with.

Honestly, don't buy a Kindle just to keep supporting them. Just buy books elsewhere and move on.

I'm still using K4PC until they decide they don't want me any longer. I'm not going to go through gymnastics to stay a customer.

I'll buy newly published books elsewhere.

If I want an Amazon exclusive book bad enough, I'll reach out to the author. Maybe if this became a more common thing, it would show authors that Amazon isn't the only place to seel your books.

[mitra1]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I commented previously on some of the possible issues that might arise in purchasing a Kindle for the purpose of obtaining files suitable for DRM removal. Here are my thoughts on which models would be the most desirable in case someone still wants to go ahead with that.

Given the recent restrictions on Download & Transfer I recommend obtaining a model that allows books to be downloaded to the device directly from Amazon over WiFi in KF8 format which can be accessed via USB.

I would avoid the 1st and 2nd generation Kindles and the DX. They only support the old MOBI format and may no longer be able to connect to Amazon.

The Kindle Keyboard (3rd gen), Kindle Touch (4th gen), and Kindle (4th & 5th gen) are workable. However they may require manually installed firmware updates to be usable. And as older models they are more likely to be cut off from service in the future.

The Paperwhite 1 (5th gen) is the most desirable option in my opinion. It is the newest model that does not support KFX format.

I would avoid newer models than that. Most of them support KFX out of the box that cannot be disabled. Some models that didn't can be reverted to older firmware that does not support KFX, but that requires jail breaking which is more difficult to set up and risks bricking the device.

Boh. If Amazon has closed very many holes there is a concrete risk that close this last hole so I prefer sincerely to stop buying by Amazon and buy print book if it's impossible have ebook.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The Paperwhite 1 (5th gen) is the most desirable option in my opinion. It is the newest model that does not support KFX format.

I would avoid newer models than that. Most of them support KFX out of the box that cannot be disabled. Some models that didn't can be reverted to older firmware that does not support KFX, but that requires jail breaking which is more difficult to set up and risks bricking the device.

There is another reason to avoid the newer than PW1 models. Just as simple as they can disallow K4PC older versions to download newly published books, they can make it impossible for a PW2 to download KU titles if the FW is too old.

[Rhooo]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

It's almost like Amazon is becoming too big a pain in the ass to deal with.

Honestly, don't buy a Kindle just to keep supporting them. Just buy books elsewhere and move on.

Hah, I really wish I could. I've certainly avoided them well enough until now (only got books unavailable on Kobo or anywhere else and had a KU subscription now and then, for the series I'm enjoying on there). At least they're not getting an extra sale out of me on the hardware side, since I'm buying used (ended up getting a second-hand PW1 off Ebay).

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I commented previously on some of the possible issues that might arise in purchasing a Kindle for the purpose of obtaining files suitable for DRM removal. Here are my thoughts on which models would be the most desirable in case someone still wants to go ahead with that.

Given the recent restrictions on Download & Transfer I recommend obtaining a model that allows books to be downloaded to the device directly from Amazon over WiFi in KF8 format which can be accessed via USB.

I would avoid the 1st and 2nd generation Kindles and the DX. They only support the old MOBI format and may no longer be able to connect to Amazon.

The Kindle Keyboard (3rd gen), Kindle Touch (4th gen), and Kindle (4th & 5th gen) are workable. However they may require manually installed firmware updates to be usable. And as older models they are more likely to be cut off from service in the future.

The Paperwhite 1 (5th gen) is the most desirable option in my opinion. It is the newest model that does not support KFX format.

I would avoid newer models than that. Most of them support KFX out of the box that cannot be disabled. Some models that didn't can be reverted to older firmware that does not support KFX, but that requires jail breaking which is more difficult to set up and risks bricking the device.

Useful post. I quoted it verbatim in the OP rather than trying to summarize and mess it up.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by FicDragon

Many authors are entrenched in Amazon for whatever reason (I'm assuming financially) and refuse to sell anywhere else. I'm in a lot of author's reader groups (generally the only way to get news of upcoming releases), any time someone asks if they can get their books anywhere but Amazon or if they have plans to sell out of the 'zon system, the answer is usually a resounding "No!". There are a few who do, and I guess that's where I'll buy now.

That's the KDP Select program, which gets them higher royalties and listing on Kindle Unlimited in exchange for exclusivity. Unfortunately for us who'd prefer to buy elsewhere, KU royalties can easily become the main source of revenue from a book so authors are reluctant to leave.

A Reddit post from /r/Fantasy is pretty much the same opinion I have:

In my opinion, it doesn't so much sweeten the pot as spread caltrops everywhere outside the pot. Here's how I see it: As far as indie books go, Kindle Unlimited is only available to KDP Select authors. KDP Select is an exclusivity deal. So the Amazon exclusive titles are covered under the subscription, while non-exclusives now look like an extra payment. For people who already pay for the subscription, every book outside Kindle Unlimited starts off with one strike against it.

As an indie author, it's already an uphill struggle trying to attract new readers. That's one of the reasons some of us are wary of KDP Select. Amazon promises an increase in visibility at the cost of pulling your books out of all other markets. There's skepticism about whether the increased visibility is even there, though some authors swear that it helped them.

With Unlimited, now, it's gone the other way: Amazon is giving customers an incentive to avoid books that aren't exclusive--Amazon is essentially blocking indie authors from reaching customers unless those authors block their customers from buying elsewhere. I call this anti-competitive behavior.

tl;dnr: Unlimited customers won't pay for books outside the subscription. Indie authors can only get into Unlimited via an exclusivity deal. Anti-competitive.

[hyegeek]

It surprises me that I'm not seeing anyone mentioning the censorship issue with all of this. If you, as an author, put your book out through Amazon and add DRM to the book, you are allowing Amazon at their sole discretion to unilaterally pull you book not only from the store but from all devices that already purchased them.

If you run afoul of any of their policies, rules, or just annoy them (yes in that case, they'd have to make an excuse) they can just cancel you and what you have already achieved.

If you think that Amazon would never do such a thing, then I'd suggest you haven't been paying much attention the last few years.

Every author that I've enjoyed who has used DRM has recieved an email from me about it. Most are quite receptive and actually don't really want the DRM on their books, but their publisher insists or their publisher takes care of all of that and they don't have much input in the matter.

I'd encourage all of you to email the authors you read and express (politely) your opionon on DRM. It might not hurt to mention the censorship angle if you think it has any merit. You might be surprised at how things start to change. At least one the authors (published through a publisher) that I contacted no longer puts DRM on her books. They can and do listen.

[hleo12]

Originally Posted by hyegeek

It surprises me that I'm not seeing anyone mentioning the censorship issue with all of this. If you, as an author, put your book out through Amazon and add DRM to the book, you are allowing Amazon at their sole discretion to unilaterally pull you book not only from the store but from all devices that already purchased them.

If you run afoul of any of their policies, rules, or just annoy them (yes in that case, they'd have to make an excuse) they can just cancel you and what you have already achieved.

If you think that Amazon would never do such a thing, then I'd suggest you haven't been paying much attention the last few years.

Every author that I've enjoyed who has used DRM has recieved an email from me about it. Most are quite receptive and actually don't really want the DRM on their books, but their publisher insists or their publisher takes care of all of that and they don't have much input in the matter.

I'd encourage all of you to email the authors you read and express (politely) your opionon on DRM. It might not hurt to mention the censorship angle if you think it has any merit. You might be surprised at how things start to change. At least one the authors (published through a publisher) that I contacted no longer puts DRM on her books. They can and do listen.

Indie authors who chose to publish directly through Amazon won't really have a choice. Even big-name authors have a hard time getting their publishers breaking ties with Amazon.

The issue with DRM and Amazon's "censorship" aren't really related. Amazon can remove their DRM policy, but authors are still subject to Amazon's publishing rules.

Amazon deleting books from Kindle devices only happened due to someone putting the books for sale when they didn't have the rights to it. The article mentioned Amazon doing this a few times, but all of those were due to other people listing books they had no rights to. Amazon has given refunds to those who bought them.

A lot of "problematic" authors are still being sold through Amazon. I just don't see the relation between DRM and censorship.

[hyegeek]

Originally Posted by hleo12

The issue with DRM and Amazon's "censorship" aren't really related. Amazon can remove their DRM policy, but authors are still subject to Amazon's publishing rules.

True, they can be pulled from selling more copies, but if people can read elsewhere they can't have the book the purchased taken away.

Originally Posted by hleo12

Amazon deleting books from Kindle devices only happened due to someone putting the books for sale when they didn't have the rights to it. The article mentioned Amazon doing this a few times, but all of those were due to other people listing books they had no rights to. Amazon has given refunds to those who bought them.

While that is the most common reason, it is certainly not true that that is the only reason. Even if it where, I'm not willing to believe they will not use the ability they clearly have to further whatever agenda they decide to.

Originally Posted by hleo12

A lot of "problematic" authors are still being sold through Amazon. I just don't see the relation between DRM and censorship.

"Problematic" by who's definition? Also, there are more than a few that have already been kept from publishing when there was nothing in their books (other than ideas not agreed to by Amazon) to warrant such action.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by hyegeek

Also, there are more than a few that have already been kept from publishing when there was nothing in their books (other than ideas not agreed to by Amazon) to warrant such action.

Do you have any examples? I'd be interested to know what ideas are those that Amazon doesn't want people to publish on their platform.

[hyegeek]

The most recent examples that I can remember have to do with books on gender and gender confusion. I don't remember specific titles since I was not interested in purchasing them. But the ideas they contains were (until just a few short years ago) considered main stream and normal.

[hleo12]

Originally Posted by hyegeek

True, they can be pulled from selling more copies, but if people can read elsewhere they can't have the book the purchased taken away.

Amazon exclusive authors can't publish elsewhere. Authors who also publishes on other platforms (whether they have DRM or not) said that what they earn from Amazon is more than what they earn from other platforms combined. That's why a lot of authors choose to publish exclusively on Amazon. Specially indie ones who can't afford to traditionally publish.

Us here in in this forum is a tiny, tiny fraction of Amazon's userbase. We won't even make a dent on their overall sales. Unless the authors you contact are Brandon Sanderson level, it won't really amount to much.

Originally Posted by hyegeek

While that is the most common reason, it is certainly not true that that is the only reason. Even if it where, I'm not willing to believe they will not use the ability they clearly have to further whatever agenda they decide to.

This is definitely a tinfoil hat moment. There have been no reported other cases where Amazon deleted books from Kindles that are not related to pirated content on their own store. If you know any other cases, please specify them so we can look them up.

Books that have been pulled from Amazon (either by the publishers or Amazon themselves) are still available for download to those who bought them.

Originally Posted by hyegeek

"Problematic" by who's definition? Also, there are more than a few that have already been kept from publishing when there was nothing in their books (other than ideas not agreed to by Amazon) to warrant such action.

Problematic by the public's definition. JK Rowling comes to mind.

Give us examples of authors that has been kept from being published because of their ideas. Those authors must have done something really, really bad for them to not be published, but authors who write about giant ice alien s3x are perfectly fine.

But this isn't really related to DRM policies.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by hyegeek

The most recent examples that I can remember have to do with books on gender and gender confusion. I don't remember specific titles since I was not interested in purchasing them. But the ideas they contains were (until just a few short years ago) considered main stream and normal.

Googling "Amazon transphobic book" brings up the Amazon page of the book in question and multiple articles stating that Amazon would not be removing it.

[hleo12]

Originally Posted by hyegeek

The most recent examples that I can remember have to do with books on gender and gender confusion. I don't remember specific titles since I was not interested in purchasing them. But the ideas they contains were (until just a few short years ago) considered main stream and normal.

I looked it up and saw this article.

One of the books mentioned contained harmful transphobic rhetoric. In fact, both of those books contain harmful transphobic and homophobic rhetoric. And depicts being queer as a mental illness (the official reason as to why Amazon stopped selling the book). The other one is available on Amazon as of right now.

Amazon has banned books containing anti-semitic content before.

All of this has nothing to do with DRM and everything to do with the author's ideology, which is harmful.

[mitra1]

Originally Posted by hleo12

I looked it up and saw this article.

One of the books mentioned contained harmful transphobic rhetoric. In fact, both of those books contain harmful transphobic and homophobic rhetoric. And depicts being queer as a mental illness (the official reason as to why Amazon stopped selling the book). The other one is available on Amazon as of right now.

Amazon has banned books containing anti-semitic content before.

All of this has nothing to do with DRM and everything to do with the author's ideology, which is harmful.

Can i'd agree with stop of selling of "dangerous" books but not with remotion of books by kindle. It's a dangerous precedent in a democratic country that it's sufficient a law to delete technicaly opposite ideas by people's libraries.

If Hitler had power today he'd be happy to delete communist and liberal books with a simple law.

Amazon is co-responsable of published books so it has reason to stop to sell transphobic and antisemite books.