Amazon and DRM changes

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I would that those lines would not be removed.

For the heck of it, I downloaded some previously purchased ebooks (2 from Baen, 1 from Tor) with a new install of K4PC 1.39 and they were downloaded in DRMmed KFX format. The descriptions for the books on Amazon.ca included "At the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM (Digital Rights Management). for Baen and "At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied." for Tor.

If it has that message, and you have a Kindle or Fire registered to your account, the AZW3 file you can download from Content and Devices page will have no DRM on it.

To verify this, I downloaded a Tor book for my Paperwhite, side loaded it to my Scribe and it opens. And then disabled the DeDRM plugin for calibre and it converted it to ePub without error.

I repeated this experiment by downloading one for my Fire.

Of course if you need to remove the DRM, Fire will not work.

But the DRM free message is accurate enough. It just doesn't extend to the content that's downloaded to the device or app in question.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I would say that those lines would not be removed.

For the heck of it, I downloaded some previously purchased ebooks (2 from Baen, 1 from Tor) with a new install of K4PC 1.39 and they were downloaded in DRMmed KFX format. The descriptions for the books on Amazon.ca included "At the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM (Digital Rights Management). for Baen and "At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied." for Tor.

Originally Posted by tomsem

If it has that message, and you have a Kindle or Fire registered to your account, the AZW3 file you can download from Content and Devices page will have no DRM on it.

Perhaps you should re-read my message? Pay special attention to the words "new install of K4PC 1.39 and they were downloaded in DRMmed KFX format".

Originally Posted by tomsem

To verify this, I downloaded a Tor book for my Paperwhite, side loaded it to my Scribe and it opens. And then disabled the DeDRM plugin for calibre and it converted it to ePub without error.

I repeated this experiment by downloading one for my Fire.

Of course if you need to remove the DRM, Fire will not work.

But the DRM free message is accurate enough. It just doesn't extend to the content that's downloaded to the device or app in question.

Perhaps you could pay more attention to the messages you are replying to? The message from ownedbycats that I replied to specifically mentioned KFX. You know, the format that is only available with DRM? The only format that I mentioned testing?

Oddly when I look at the book info on Amazon, there is no verbiage added after the publisher's DRM free message (see my post for the precise messages) to say "unless you download it in KFX in which case we will DRM the crap out it."

Perhaps you could try syncing the content so it is delivered directly to your devices as KFX and let us know if it still does not have DRM?

Ghod knows that I have mentioned enough time in previous posts that Download and transfer via USB for an non-Scribe Kindle, it arrives as a .azw3 file that DeDRM can deal with. Of course, that does require you to own and register a Kindle eInk device that is not a Scribe.

[ownedbycats]

Also, "without DRM so long as you purchase one of our devices!" doesn't quite sound like the publishers' intentions.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps you should re-read my message? Pay special attention to the words "new install of K4PC 1.39 and they were downloaded in DRMmed KFX format".



Perhaps you could pay more attention to the messages you are replying to? The message from ownedbycats that I replied to specifically mentioned KFX. You know, the format that is only available with DRM? The only format that I mentioned testing?

Oddly when I look at the book info on Amazon, there is no verbiage added after the publisher's DRM free message (see my post for the precise messages) to say "unless you download it in KFX in which case we will DRM the crap out it."

Perhaps you could try syncing the content so it is delivered directly to your devices as KFX and let us know if it still does not have DRM?

Ghod knows that I have mentioned enough time in previous posts that Download and transfer via USB for an non-Scribe Kindle, it arrives as a .azw3 file that DeDRM can deal with. Of course, that does require you to own and register a Kindle eInk device that is not a Scribe.

Peace to you.

I don't mention KFX as that is a dead horse.

The only point is that the boilerplate DRM free message is not meaningless. If it doesn't mean what some people think it should mean, then my advice would be to get over it, not keep complaining about things we cannot change, and which is unlikely to change.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by tomsem

If it has that message, and you have a Kindle or Fire registered to your account, the AZW3 file you can download from Content and Devices page will have no DRM on it.

To verify this, I downloaded a Tor book for my Paperwhite, side loaded it to my Scribe and it opens. And then disabled the DeDRM plugin for calibre and it converted it to ePub without error.

I repeated this experiment by downloading one for my Fire.

Of course if you need to remove the DRM, Fire will not work.

But the DRM free message is accurate enough. It just doesn't extend to the content that's downloaded to the device or app in question.

If you purchase a book on Kobo that has that message, then go to My Books, you can download the DRM-free ePub.

If you have a Kindle, you need to purchase a Kindle in order to access the DRM-free AZW3.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tomsem

The only point is that the boilerplate DRM free message is not meaningless. If it doesn't mean what some people think it should mean, then my advice would be to get over it, not keep complaining about things we cannot change, and which is unlikely to change.

Perhaps you might consider consumer protection legislation? I did bounce this off a lawyer a while back and in her opinion, under Canadian consumer protection legislation, Amazon could be held guilty of false or misleading advertising by supplying a DRMmed product when a DRM free product is promised.

Please note that Amazon does not supply any quibbling, just that at the publisher's request, this ebook is being supplied without DRM.

Perhaps you could let us know how a line stating that at the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM could be construed as suggesting that supplying a DRMmed version of the ebook is okay?

So you would be okay if you bought a car that stated in the advertising that it came with a "Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission" and it was delivered with a 4 speed manual transmission? After all, you ordered in slate blue rather than white.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps you might consider consumer protection legislation? I did bounce this off a lawyer a while back and in her opinion, under Canadian consumer protection legislation, Amazon could be held guilty of false or misleading advertising by supplying a DRMmed product when a DRM free product is promised.

Please note that Amazon does not supply any quibbling, just that at the publisher's request, this ebook is being supplied without DRM.

Perhaps you could let us know how a line stating that at the publisher's request, this title is sold without DRM could be construed as suggesting that supplying a DRMmed version of the ebook is okay?

So you would be okay if you bought a car that stated in the advertising that it came with a "Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission" and it was delivered with a 4 speed manual transmission? After all, you ordered in slate blue rather than white.

I'm gratified you found my post so interesting but you are overdoing things.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I'm gratified you found my post so interesting but you are overdoing things.

Really?

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Really?

I can't be sure but I think we're engaged in some sort of irony battle. If it continues I'm prepared with some random Shakespeare snippets.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In post #152, @rantanplan refuted @ottischwenk with proof.

Keep in mind that I tested with an Oasis, a device from 2019. It might not work with newer devices. I'd recommend testing it with a 2022 Kindle.

Also, Perry Rhodan is usually sold without DRM (as are most Germany ebooks at this point), so there are a lot of ifs and buts, it's not a conclusive test.

[langshipley]

I still have my very old Kindle K3 keyboard that I bought in 2008? 2009? I've kept it on my account as my default device the whole time even though I haven't turned it on for years. It just sits on my shelf. But that's the device I point to when I want to download a book from my Kindle library to load into Calibre. I have an old Paperwhite too, I think... somewhere. And I think my husband still have his old Kindle K3 keyboard device somewhere too. Maybe. I should check. I appreciate this post as a reminder to never throw that thing away.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Keep in mind that I tested with an Oasis, a device from 2019. It might not work with newer devices. I'd recommend testing it with a 2022 Kindle.

Book with DRM (Tested as calibre couldn't open it before adding the serial number), basic kindle from 2022, serial number added, calibre can read the book.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

If you purchase a book on Kobo that has that message, then go to My Books, you can download the DRM-free ePub.

If you have a Kindle, you need to purchase a Kindle in order to access the DRM-free AZW3.

Ah...but if I purchase the book on Kobo and sync it to my device or to the Kobo PC app, I can't pull it off of there without using a third party app. (the obok plugin for Calibre).

Also, when KFX first came out, I did a test where I pulled all of the .kfx files associated with a normally DRM Free book off of my kindle and tested it putting it onto another Kindle from my account, and I was able to read it from that Kindle. I then tried putting it onto an unregistered Kindle, and was able to read it on that Kindle, as well. If I wanted to, I could import it into Calibre using jhowell's plugin and read it there, as well.

It seems to me that KFX format is similar to Kepub in that respect.

Shari

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by shalym

Ah...but if I purchase the book on Kobo and sync it to my device or to the Kobo PC app, I can't pull it off of there without using a third party app. (the obok plugin for Calibre).

"My Books" on the Kobo website offers download:



"Manage Your Content and Devices" on the Kindle website does not:

[shalym]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

"My Books" on the Kobo website offers download:
Attachment 198944


"Manage Your Content and Devices" on the Kindle website does not:
Attachment 198947

That is true, and Kobo is better than Amazon in that way. I was not discussing that, I was discussing whether or not Amazon adds DRM to books that are supposed to be DRM free. They don't, any more than Kobo does.

I also brought up the fact that books bought from Kobo and synced to devices are just as obfuscated as books bought from Amazon and synced to devices.

I never said anything about the ability to download books directly from either website, only what happens when syncing, or downloading directly to a device.

Shari