eBook protest on CNN frontpage

[kacir]

go to sign the petition at
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-To-Read

[kacir]

I found a priceless comment on Amazon.com forum discussion
http://www.amazon.com/Authors-Guild-...sin=B00154JDAI

--- quote ---
i'm still interested in why they're not upset that we can increase our font size on the fly. it's got to be eating into their large-print edition sales..

they still aren't recognizing the *fact* - ahem - that text to speech capability does not constitute a free, second copy of a book.

found a random house book today that i'd like to read. i'll be getting that one from the library.
--- end of quote ---

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

The AG's statement, of course, assumes without discussion that TTS implicates "audio rights" in the first place, which is what they want everyone to simply accept. I would argue that there's a very good case to be made that TTS does implicate audio rights at all.

It doesn't have anything to do with copyright either (another claim they're trying to make).

As we discussed when this originally happened, this whole thing comes down to contract negotiations between authors/publishers/distributers. The rest of it is just posturing by one side or the other to try and get better contract terms.

[hidari]

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

@Jeffrey--


For an author it can make the difference between being able to put chicken and broccoli on the table, versus living on ramen. Now I understand better why some of them feel so strongly about this. The audio book rights are worth serious money to them.
can, as it's so much quicker.

Sorry have to disagree with the above. I can not have much sympathy if a writer has to eat Ramen noodles instead of a gourmet Italian dish. Writing is a privilege. If one can make a living as a writer they are in the extreme minority. Most writers have to make a living beyond just their writing skills.

[Jellby]

I just don't see the link between TTS and audiobooks... not until technology is improved beyond my expectations.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Jellby

I just don't see the link between TTS and audiobooks... not until technology is improved beyond my expectations.

I felt that way too, at first. Then, as I learned more about it--partly by talking to the head of the AG myself--I realized that there are two issues involved:

1. The technology will improve, and the day may come when TTS really does infringe (in a way that's meaningful to the average person) on licenses that are reserved for true audio performances. At that point, it would be much more difficult to draw a line in the sand.

2. There may well be infringement right now on technical rights that are currently spelled out in book contracts, involving sound or audible versions of books. I consider it a safe bet that Amazon would not have pulled back on what was a great marketing stroke if they didn't see genuine legal issues in front of them. They tried to make it sound as though they just wanted rights-holders to feel "comfortable," but unless Amazon has had a personality transplant, that's a load of dingoes' kidneys.

The merits of all of this are clearly debatable. But it's a discussion that needs to take place--and would not have without the AG actions.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by starrigger

1. The technology will improve, and the day may come when TTS really does infringe (in a way that's meaningful to the average person) on licenses that are reserved for true audio performances. At that point, it would be much more difficult to draw a line in the sand.

At that point, audiobooks will be dead (though maybe artificially, read legally, kept alive) and licenses for audio performances will be moot. Are there separate licenses for photocopying and handwritten reproduction? Is display on a screen prohibited because photocopying rights are not granted?

2. There may well be infringement right now on technical rights that are currently spelled out in book contracts, involving sound or audible versions of books. I consider it a safe bet that Amazon would not have pulled back on what was a great marketing stroke if they didn't see genuine legal issues in front of them. They tried to make it sound as though they just wanted rights-holders to feel "comfortable," but unless Amazon has had a personality transplant, that's a load of dingoes' kidneys.

I don't know what the contracts say, but the only possible explanation I can understand is that the TTS feature in the Kindle 2 would bypass a possible (implicit or explicit) blocking of TTS in the ebooks, as if, say, it would provide screenshot+OCR capabilities to bypass copy-disabled ebooks.

[snipenekkid]

TTS will never match the high quality readings of audiobooks. Thus the function is not a threat to my buying audiobooks. I buy several dozen annually and would continue to do so as I actually enjoy hearing a book I have read performed by every talented individuals.

I simply do not see how TTS is any different than other forms of format shifting, which is generally legal in the US, right?

Maybe next they need to go after those evil mom's & dads who read to their kids at night before bed. After all, they too as performing a printed and copyrighted work without paying a fee to do so. The way this all sounds publishers feel books are only to be read quietly by one person then thrown away because they also want to criminalize the used book market as well, let alone the evil librarians and their story hours, heck Border's still have story times for kids where someone reads a book to them in the store. That is a performance, right?

btw, that was all mostly sarcasm at the ludicrous stance of the publishers, and yes some of the authors as well, save for one or two shining examples around here.

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by starrigger

1. The technology will improve, and the day may come when TTS really does infringe (in a way that's meaningful to the average person) on licenses that are reserved for true audio performances. At that point, it would be much more difficult to draw a line in the sand.

That will be around the day when we start using robots to perform Shakespeare's plays, because they give better performances than living actors?

I can imagine listening to audiobook partially because I want to hear the voice, and way of expressing words, of a particular lector.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

TTS will never match the high quality readings of audiobooks. Thus the function is not a threat to my buying audiobooks. I buy several dozen annually and would continue to do so as I actually enjoy hearing a book I have read performed by every talented individuals.

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

That will be around the day when we start using robots to perform Shakespeare's plays, because they give better performances than living actors?

I can imagine listening to audiobook partially because I want to hear the voice, and way of expressing words, of a particular lector.

It will probably take a long time to get to that point. I hesitate to guess how long a time. But, given the past decade's improvements in TTS technology, and the degree to which the stuff in the labs is better than what's on the street, I'd predict that we'll get to at least the first of those two situtations... eventually.

Even so, I see this as more a matter of format shifting than of "audio books." There's no audio involved; nor is there a public performance or a recording. As far as I can tell, the existing legal arrangements for licensing of audio performances just don't apply.

Xenophon

Obligatory disclaimer: As usual -- I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Should you require advice on which you may rely, seek out a lawyer who specializes in the appropriate area of the law.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

It will probably take a long time to get to that point. I hesitate to guess how long a time. But, given the past decade's improvements in TTS technology, and the degree to which the stuff in the labs is better than what's on the street, I'd predict that we'll get to at least the first of those two situtations... eventually.

I think it'll be a heck of a long time until we reach the stage where a TTS system can do what a good audiobook performer does - use a different "voice" for each character in the book, and make the voice "fit" the character.

We probably will reach the stage where TTS can read a book in a "neutral" manner, in a realistic sounding voice, but the days when it was sufficient for a decent audiobook to consist of simply that are long past.

[Jellby]

Just compare it with (classical) music. It is much easier to turn written music into sound than written words into spoken language, but computer-played music (not just music created with the help of a computer) with synthesized instruments is still light years from human-played music with real instruments... and people still buy classical music played and recorded by humans.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by Fledchen

It might be even better if they teamed up with Springer Design or Humanware, which already manufacture TTS ebook readers specifically designed with blind people in mind. Humanware's VR Stream already works with several different formats and DRM schemes, including Audible. If they can put Kindle books on the iPhone/iTouch, why not another device? It's not that ebooks aren't already available to blind people, but rather that many people would like to be able to purchase brand-new bestsellers rather than have to wait years until NLS or a charitable organization makes them available in accessible formats.

Also keep in mind that less than 10% of legally blind people can read braille. It's better to have a simple keyboard with an easily-memorized control system and audible menus than to try to label every button with a specific function.

Teaming up with Springer Design or Humanware would be cool. Solve a lot of design problems at one stroke and at the same time show they're serious about accessibility.

I didn't know that most blind people can't read braille. I agree about the audible menus but it seems like a shame to miss out on the search and annotate functions. But on the other hand, the Springer Design / Humanware devices have probably dealt with that issue already.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by hidari

Sorry have to disagree with the above. I can not have much sympathy if a writer has to eat Ramen noodles instead of a gourmet Italian dish. Writing is a privilege. If one can make a living as a writer they are in the extreme minority. Most writers have to make a living beyond just their writing skills.

? When did chicken and broccoli become some sort of gourmet dish (or pair of gourmet dishes) that excites envy?

At any rate, it's a free country; you're free to maintain that authors deserve no better than ramen if they choose to try to make a living doing something they love.

I hope you like reading fanfic.

It's true that I hope my Kindle can still read to me; I really like that feature. It's also true that I hope the authors whose work I enjoy wind up well enough compensated that they can afford to / are willing to / keep writing instead of having to give it up to sell insurance or something. I'm hoping we can work out some sort of happy medium here, and I'm willing to give it some time to see how it plays out.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I've already told my agent I want TTS enabled. But I don't have any audiobook contracts. If I did, I'd have to study the wording to see if I could approve that without violating my agreement with someone else.

That is great news, Jeff I always felt you had a fair view of TTS. Yes, even though Amazon back off due to AG pressure that does not mean they are correct in their claim. I’m sure the when you get your audiobook contract, and I hope you do, you should not see any conflict.

Originally Posted by starrigger

Anyway, here's the Authors Guild statement issued yesterday:

You know the more I read their press release the more I dislike them. Fools with blind greed that do not see a business opportunity in front of them if they see one. I guess they is why they are a “GUILD” and not a “corporation”.

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

@Jeffrey--

Thanks for putting up the Author's Guild's press release. Until I read this, and spoke to an author about audio rights last weekend, I didn't really understand what was at stake with the TTS thing.

For an author it can make the difference between being able to put chicken and broccoli on the table, versus living on ramen. Now I understand better why some of them feel so strongly about this. The audio book rights are worth serious money to them.

Well just a couple points. First the eBook was purchased so that is putting “chicken and broccoli” on the table for them. Second a large majority of books do not have audio versions, Jeffery C. is a good example, here are some fine SF books without any audiobooks. So buy disabling TTS they get nothing since most authors don’t have audiobooks in the first place.


Do you listen too much to TTS? I do and I’ve listen to audio books as well I can tell you there is no comparison. The readers inflections and the background music give something to the production that will never be rivaled in TTS. The difference is as stark as watching Hamlet in a high school production and going to a Broadway production. While the high school production is tolerable it is in no way going to take business away from a broadway production.

=X=