The Technology Vent and Rant Thread - Page 81

ownedbycats · 11-14-2022, 04:51 PM

In Oblivion, I failed at stealing something and got arrested. Okay then, fine's not too big, so I pay it. Then I spawn outside the prison and find three NPCs from the Fighter's Guild and a damned lich. It quickly turned into a brawl, with guards soon coming from somewhere to join in.

Oh Oblivion, never change. I feel like Bethesda RPGs are chaos theory in action.

aardbewoner · 11-26-2022, 05:14 AM

PC = Personal computer ! Why do all the crap heads assume it runs windows V(X) as OS ?

Quoth · 11-26-2022, 06:08 AM

PCs technically existed about 6 years in Ireland & UK before the IBM PC launched, or about 5 years in USA. Ran a variety of OSes, but not IBM PC DOS or MS DOS. Windows wasn't till after MS sold their version of UNIX, called Xenix to SCO (not the recent SCO trolls, but original).
And even after Windows on IBM PC and clones the same boxes could run OS/2, UNIX, Xenix, BSD, Minix and later Linux (its Kernel only released same time as NT 3.1, 1993). There was even an MS OS/2 inc Lan Manager as server for Windows PCs in 1989 after MS & IBM parted company on the project.

Hitch · 11-26-2022, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

PCs technically existed about 6 years in Ireland & UK before the IBM PC launched, or about 5 years in USA. Ran a variety of OSes, but not IBM PC DOS or MS DOS. Windows wasn't till after MS sold their version of UNIX, called Xenix to SCO (not the recent SCO trolls, but original).
And even after Windows on IBM PC and clones the same boxes could run OS/2, UNIX, Xenix, BSD, Minix and later Linux (its Kernel only released same time as NT 3.1, 1993). There was even an MS OS/2 inc Lan Manager as server for Windows PCs in 1989 after MS & IBM parted company on the project.

Ah, O/S2. Gosh, I have fond memories of that. Not forever, and all that, but OMG, was I wowzered by it the first time I saw it.

Hitch

Apache · 11-26-2022, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Ah, O/S2. Gosh, I have fond memories of that. Not forever, and all that, but OMG, was I wowzered by it the first time I saw it.

Hitch

Me too.
Apache

Quoth · 11-26-2022, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Ah, O/S2. Gosh, I have fond memories of that. Not forever, and all that, but OMG, was I wowzered by it the first time I saw it.

Hitch

Actual original OS/2? Sometime before 1989. It didn't originally have the Presentation manager, which is why MS only sold it as a Server OS. (similar to Windows 2.x & 3.x Program Manager. Like BSD, Xenix and UNIX with no X-Windows, it was text only. NT 3.1 and maybe up to NT 5.1 (XP) could run OS/2 console AKA textmode programs natively, but not Graphical Desktop ones.

Most people think of OS/2 Warp, released in 1994, though 1992 OS/2 2.0 (32 bit) had a desktop (Presentation Manager) and ran DOS by bundling DOS 5 (which unlike NT could freeze the system) and ran ordinary 16 bit MS Windows applications using bundled Win 3.1 code on a VDM.
By 1995 it was superior to Win95 (really still very like WFWG 3.11 with Win32s and Explorer and a mix of 16 & 32 bit) but seriously inferior to NT3.5 (1994), NT3.51(1995) and NT4.0 (1996) versions of Windows,
Warp was the last attempt at the consumer marketplace and failed due lack of drivers and game compatibility. The inferior to NT pseudo OS Win95/Win98 survived till Vista or later because of games.

Quoth · 11-26-2022, 10:55 AM

This section on OS/2 explains why MS ended up with two incompatible Windows families, one a real 32 bit OS and the other not (Win 1, 2, 3.x, 95, 98 Me) and why NT in 1993 starts at NT 3.1, because it was really a sort of MS OS/2 Version 3.1. The Windows 2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7 are all actually versions of Windows NT 5.x, and Windows 8.x is really 6.x and Windows 10/11 should be NT 7.0 and 7.1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup
Actually it unravelled before 1990, sometime in 1998-1999 as I actually maintained a system with MS branded OS/2 in 1989. By 1989 MS was selling MS OS/2 as a server for networked Windows PCs using NetBEUI and LanManager.

Apple stopped incrementing after replace Mac OS 9 with Mac OS 10 aka Mac OS X about the time NT 5.1 (XP) came out. Now each version is just the first digit after the 10.
See also crazy MS Office and MS Word numbering and naming.
Totally crazy is Browser Versions.

j.p.s · 11-26-2022, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Ah, O/S2. Gosh, I have fond memories of that. Not forever, and all that, but OMG, was I wowzered by it the first time I saw it.

Hitch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache

Me too.
Apache

OS/2 was a big improvement over DOS, even with having to install 30 floppies, but I dropped it like a hot potato as soon as linux became usable.

JSWolf · 11-26-2022, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

PCs technically existed about 6 years in Ireland & UK before the IBM PC launched, or about 5 years in USA. Ran a variety of OSes, but not IBM PC DOS or MS DOS. Windows wasn't till after MS sold their version of UNIX, called Xenix to SCO (not the recent SCO trolls, but original).
And even after Windows on IBM PC and clones the same boxes could run OS/2, UNIX, Xenix, BSD, Minix and later Linux (its Kernel only released same time as NT 3.1, 1993). There was even an MS OS/2 inc Lan Manager as server for Windows PCs in 1989 after MS & IBM parted company on the project.

I had a PC before IBM launched an MS-DOS based computer. What I had was the Tandy Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I. It ran on a Z-80 processor.

JSWolf · 11-26-2022, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Ah, O/S2. Gosh, I have fond memories of that. Not forever, and all that, but OMG, was I wowzered by it the first time I saw it.

Hitch

OS/2 was a failure. Windows killed it.

Quoth · 11-26-2022, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

OS/2 was a failure. Windows killed it.

Poor HW support, IBM policies and poor design killed it. Earlier version was locked to the 286 which wasn't even a very good 16 bit processor.
Windows never "killed" any OS.

Hitch · 11-26-2022, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

Actual original OS/2? Sometime before 1989. It didn't originally have the Presentation manager, which is why MS only sold it as a Server OS. (similar to Windows 2.x & 3.x Program Manager. Like BSD, Xenix and UNIX with no X-Windows, it was text only. NT 3.1 and maybe up to NT 5.1 (XP) could run OS/2 console AKA textmode programs natively, but not Graphical Desktop ones.

Most people think of OS/2 Warp, released in 1994, though 1992 OS/2 2.0 (32 bit) had a desktop (Presentation Manager) and ran DOS by bundling DOS 5 (which unlike NT could freeze the system) and ran ordinary 16 bit MS Windows applications using bundled Win 3.1 code on a VDM.
By 1995 it was superior to Win95 (really still very like WFWG 3.11 with Win32s and Explorer and a mix of 16 & 32 bit) but seriously inferior to NT3.5 (1994), NT3.51(1995) and NT4.0 (1996) versions of Windows,
Warp was the last attempt at the consumer marketplace and failed due lack of drivers and game compatibility. The inferior to NT pseudo OS Win95/Win98 survived till Vista or later because of games.

Yup, actual, original OS/2. Not Warp. (Not to pee on Warp, though.)

We (Mr. H and I) were kinda free-wheeling in the way-back days. My then-employer didn't have any computers (this is...hmmmm...mid 80's) and we were making and building our own. When I showed said employer what a spreadsheet looked like, he went bonkers and asked us to build one for him, which we did. I wish I could recall what that was, model-wise, but ...that sort of the beginning for me, in being the resident "geek." (Strewth, it's Mr. H, not me. But...you know, fame rubs off on ya, ha!).

I may even yet have some of that OS/2 stuff 'round here. Hell, we were just clearing out Win 3.x the other day, from some shelf or the other. The joys of aging and realizing you've saved stuff that nobody in their right mind would save...

Hitch

Quoth · 11-26-2022, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Yup, actual, original OS/2. Not Warp.

...

I may even yet have some of that OS/2 stuff 'round here. Hell, we were just clearing out Win 3.x the other day, from some shelf or the other. The joys of aging and realizing you've saved stuff that nobody in their right mind would save...

You must be ancient like me. I must dispose of 100s of MSDN CDs, Windows 3.0 inc manuals, Word 2.0a, Wordstar 6.0 and other stuff in the attic and put down proper insulation.

I think all the CP/M stuff went at last clear out.

JSWolf · 11-26-2022, 03:00 PM

I'm old enough to remember AOL CDs that were sent in the mail unrequested. When we first got married, our first apartment, the table in the kitchen wobbled. In the mail came an AOL CD and udter one of the table legs it went and gone was the wobble. Best use for an AOL CD I've ever seen.

ownedbycats · 11-26-2022, 03:34 PM

If you put a CD in the microwave for a few seconds, you get a nice light show. But it'll make the microwave smell bad for a while.

11-14-2022, 04:51 PM	#1201
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 10,974 Karma: 75337983 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	In Oblivion, I failed at stealing something and got arrested. Okay then, fine's not too big, so I pay it. Then I spawn outside the prison and find three NPCs from the Fighter's Guild and a damned lich. It quickly turned into a brawl, with guards soon coming from somewhere to join in. Oh Oblivion, never change. I feel like Bethesda RPGs are chaos theory in action. Last edited by ownedbycats; 11-14-2022 at 04:55 PM.

11-26-2022, 10:55 AM	#1207
Quoth Still reading Posts: 14,033 Karma: 105092227 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	This section on OS/2 explains why MS ended up with two incompatible Windows families, one a real 32 bit OS and the other not (Win 1, 2, 3.x, 95, 98 Me) and why NT in 1993 starts at NT 3.1, because it was really a sort of MS OS/2 Version 3.1. The Windows 2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7 are all actually versions of Windows NT 5.x, and Windows 8.x is really 6.x and Windows 10/11 should be NT 7.0 and 7.1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup Actually it unravelled before 1990, sometime in 1998-1999 as I actually maintained a system with MS branded OS/2 in 1989. By 1989 MS was selling MS OS/2 as a server for networked Windows PCs using NetBEUI and LanManager. Apple stopped incrementing after replace Mac OS 9 with Mac OS 10 aka Mac OS X about the time NT 5.1 (XP) came out. Now each version is just the first digit after the 10. See also crazy MS Office and MS Word numbering and naming. Totally crazy is Browser Versions. Last edited by Quoth; 11-26-2022 at 10:58 AM.

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11-26-2022, 05:14 AM	#1202
aardbewoner Grumpy Posts: 76 Karma: 2222222 Join Date: Apr 2012 Device: linux computers ,raspberry	PC = Personal computer ! Why do all the crap heads assume it runs windows V(X) as OS ?

11-26-2022, 06:08 AM	#1203
Quoth Still reading Posts: 14,033 Karma: 105092227 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	PCs technically existed about 6 years in Ireland & UK before the IBM PC launched, or about 5 years in USA. Ran a variety of OSes, but not IBM PC DOS or MS DOS. Windows wasn't till after MS sold their version of UNIX, called Xenix to SCO (not the recent SCO trolls, but original). And even after Windows on IBM PC and clones the same boxes could run OS/2, UNIX, Xenix, BSD, Minix and later Linux (its Kernel only released same time as NT 3.1, 1993). There was even an MS OS/2 inc Lan Manager as server for Windows PCs in 1989 after MS & IBM parted company on the project.

11-26-2022, 03:00 PM	#1214
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,756 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I'm old enough to remember AOL CDs that were sent in the mail unrequested. When we first got married, our first apartment, the table in the kitchen wobbled. In the mail came an AOL CD and udter one of the table legs it went and gone was the wobble. Best use for an AOL CD I've ever seen.

11-26-2022, 03:34 PM	#1215
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 10,974 Karma: 75337983 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	If you put a CD in the microwave for a few seconds, you get a nice light show. But it'll make the microwave smell bad for a while.