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Old 11-04-2022, 09:32 AM   #46
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There are a billion iPhone/iPad users. Apple would not have been an insignificant player had the court decision gone differently.

I'd still wager that more kindle books are read on phones and tablets than are read on eInk devices.
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Old 11-04-2022, 09:34 AM   #47
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There are a billion iPhone/iPad users. Apple would not have been an insignificant player had the court decision gone differently.

I'd still wager that more kindle books are read on phones and tablets than are read on eInk devices.
If the DRM could have been removed and Apple didn't conspire to screw it's customers, I would maybe be buying eBooks from Apple. But as it stands, no way will I ever pay for an eBook from Apple.
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:00 AM   #48
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If the DRM could have been removed and Apple didn't conspire to screw it's customers, I would maybe be buying eBooks from Apple. But as it stands, no way will I ever pay for an eBook from Apple.
I agree. Not with the "screw customers" part. But neither of us is going to change the other's mind on that topic.

But the inability to crack the DRM is the primary reason I bought very few ebooks from Apple and copious amounts of ebooks from Amazon.
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:03 AM   #49
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I agree. Not with the "screw customers" part. But neither of us is going to change the other's mind on that topic.

But the inability to crack the DRM is the primary reason I bought very few ebooks from Apple and copious amounts of ebooks from Amazon.
Apple was the architect of the eBook price fixing. So yeah, they did screw the customers by having prices rise without allowing for sales from the online eBook shops. And the reason we now have a lot less eBook shops is because of Apple.
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:29 AM   #50
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Apple was the architect of the eBook price fixing. So yeah, they did screw the customers by having prices rise without allowing for sales from the online eBook shops. And the reason we now have a lot less eBook shops is because of Apple.
No, both on the facts and the interpretation. But we've both beat that horse to death.

I merely point out - that the result of Apple losing has been less competition, not more. And it didn't do a <bleeped> thing to reduce the cost of ebooks.
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:45 AM   #51
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Kindles, not really. You have a fixed set of settings and that's it. Wide L/R margins and a wide line-height at it's best. The other settings are unusable. As they make the L/R margins and line-height even larger.

That's why I made ChareInk as I did because it can reduce the line-height for KF8 and negative margins can reduce the L/R margins.
I never bother with fiddling with customizing other than changing the font size to one of the standard sizes that suit my eyes. In paper books you couldn't change even that much so I don't quite see the point of bothering.
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Old 11-04-2022, 11:15 AM   #52
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I'd still wager that more kindle books are read on phones and tablets than are read on eInk devices.
I'd say that's a pretty safe bet.
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Old 11-04-2022, 12:33 PM   #53
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There are a billion iPhone/iPad users. Apple would not have been an insignificant player had the court decision gone differently.
Doubtful. Amazon also has non-App products, sold paper books from the beginning. Apple only sells their own products and digital content. Google is better placed to sell ebooks than Apple and can't do it.

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I'd still wager that more kindle books are read on phones and tablets than are read on eInk devices.
No-one disagrees with that, though not much more. It's irrelevant fact for selling ebooks and also for the people reading.
We sell ebooks via Apple, B&N, Kobo, Tolino, Amazon, Google, Smashwords.
Over 1/3 are not via Amazon, so people locking into KDP Select (Amazon exclusive) are cheating themselves, building Amazon's near monopoly (92% of English title ebooks in world and 80% on paper for online sales in USA) and depriving some people that read.
In the last six years not one copy sold on Google!
Next largest volume after Amazon is Smashwords. Then Kobo, Apple, B&N are about the same. A few copies to other ebook sellers.

Amazon is also a publisher, and has bought publishing companies as well POD company, Goodreads and IMDB.

It's crazy all the big Publishers don't sell ebooks direct and are helping Amazon destroy them. Only paper versions need a distribution chain.

Perhaps Amazon & Apple compete on Streaming.
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Old 11-04-2022, 12:57 PM   #54
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It's crazy all the big Publishers don't sell ebooks direct and are helping Amazon destroy them.
I agree. I buy from some very small publishers that sell directly on their site, so it's not like you need some huge amount of capital. But then other small publishers only have links to Amazon/B&N/Kobo. And the big publishers?

They'd all be better served by offering DRM-free ePubs directly on their sites in addition to selling on Amazon et al.
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:46 PM   #55
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I agree. I buy from some very small publishers that sell directly on their site, so it's not like you need some huge amount of capital.
You just need a hosted eCommerce solution in a Datacentre (simple) and customer service (not so simple). But the customer service issue isn't as bad as for physical goods.
We looked at just using Paypal (people don't need a Paypal account) and emailing the ebook when we got the PayPal details. Some of you will know why we didn't do it.
It's not either or at all:
Offer paper print runs via traditional means
Never let stuff out of print. One off POD costs are low enough to still make a profit and big publishers surely are able to do POD in house or get a better price.
Ebooks via every ebook seller and their own site.

Really the big publishers seem clueless. I've even bought POD paperbacks at less than a big publisher title not in a supermarket from a small publisher where the receipt email had a free download code at Smashwords.

We'd like POD with a unique code inside the cover of each book and to sell SD cards with one audio book and several ebooks included as bonus and offer that free with cassettes. Oddly cassette is still best audio book format for bad sight and superior to CD for audio books (remembers where you left off even on a different player). Cassette players easy to use by feel still sold.
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:47 PM   #56
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Doubtful. Amazon also has non-App products, sold paper books from the beginning. Apple only sells their own products and digital content. Google is better placed to sell ebooks than Apple and can't do it.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Apple dominates music sales without needing to sell paper towels and everything else Amazon sells.

Apple has no interest in loss leader businesses. If Apple had won, they'd have continued investing in the book selling business.


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No-one disagrees with that, though not much more. It's irrelevant fact for selling ebooks and also for the people reading.
We sell ebooks via Apple, B&N, Kobo, Tolino, Amazon, Google, Smashwords.
Over 1/3 are not via Amazon, so people locking into KDP Select (Amazon exclusive) are cheating themselves, building Amazon's near monopoly (92% of English title ebooks in world and 80% on paper for online sales in USA) and depriving some people that read.
In the last six years not one copy sold on Google!
Next largest volume after Amazon is Smashwords. Then Kobo, Apple, B&N are about the same. A few copies to other ebook sellers.

Amazon is also a publisher, and has bought publishing companies as well POD company, Goodreads and IMDB.

It's crazy all the big Publishers don't sell ebooks direct and are helping Amazon destroy them. Only paper versions need a distribution chain.

Perhaps Amazon & Apple compete on Streaming.
Taking about out of the game took the only serious competitor to Amazon. I said it before the ruling and I think it's played out how I predicted.

Of course, I can't prove "what would have happened".
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:48 PM   #57
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They'd all be better served by offering DRM-free ePubs directly on their sites in addition to selling on Amazon et al.
But this is not an option for many because of Amazon insisting on exclusivity. With even the 2nd player Kobo losing authors because of Amazon's " sell only here or not at all" rule. what chance do still smaller outlets have?
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:54 PM   #58
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No, both on the facts and the interpretation. But we've both beat that horse to death.

I merely point out - that the result of Apple losing has been less competition, not more. And it didn't do a <bleeped> thing to reduce the cost of ebooks.
That's because Apple and the price fix 5 drove a number of eBook shops out of business such as Fictionwise and BooksOnBoard. They could no longer maintain their business models since they were no longer able to discount eBooks.
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:08 PM   #59
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That's because Apple and the price fix 5 drove a number of eBook shops out of business such as Fictionwise and BooksOnBoard. They could no longer maintain their business models since they were no longer able to discount eBooks.
Amazon killed them.

Fictionwise and the like were no real competition to Amazon in the first place. If you think anybody was going to undercut Amazon on pricing over time, you are dreaming.

Amazon uses predatory pricing...selling the best selling books at a loss as incentive to sell their kindles. No business is going to willingly allow another business to turn their money making products into full time loss leaders, devaluing their products.

<beats dead horse>
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:26 PM   #60
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I agree. I buy from some very small publishers that sell directly on their site, so it's not like you need some huge amount of capital. But then other small publishers only have links to Amazon/B&N/Kobo. And the big publishers?

They'd all be better served by offering DRM-free ePubs directly on their sites in addition to selling on Amazon et al.
I certainly wouldn't want the big publishers to sell their ebooks directly. HarperCollins does. And those ebooks cannot be downloaded, they can only be read in an app. No way, Jose.

Plus, I personally have no time to browse dozens of publisher sites. When I want to buy a book, I check Amazon, Kobo, Google Play and sometimes Smashwords. That's about it.

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