eBook piracy, how common is it?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Well, here's a thought: maybe the problem is that copyright itself is beginning to fail. It could be that copyright is technologically unsustainable.

If this is true, perhaps we are falling back into the pre-copyright environment. But the rub is that the entry costs to the publishing business - the ones that used to exist, like buying a printing press & needing physical inventory & a sales force or distribtion network - have themselves been eliminated by technology. So maybe the pre-copyright environment itself has been destroyed by technology.

So whatever better model there might be could well be something that cuts loose entirely from the concept of copyright.

Not that I have such a model to propose. I do think that the model would involve branding. Another aspect of the model would be some kind of added value. The question is, whether any of that would show up on the hardware side, the software side, or the content side of the product.

It could be that the economic environment would grow different models if copyright were off the scene. Perhaps at this point, copyright is not only obsolete, but a barrier to a better system.

BTW, your description of the "region problem" struck me as exactly the problem faced by the pharmaceutical industry. And the parallel is the patent system.

If I was to try and monetize my writing at this stage I can think of no better way than T-Shirts. If, in essence, the fictional product in zero's and ones becomes worthless, then why not shift pricing over to physical objects that still have worth?

Like my book? Buy a t-shirt, buy a mug, buy a pen with pithy phrase on the side. Everyone likes t-shirts, and sure you could copy them, but then it's painstaking and you can end up with varying results.

I think price-shifting might be the best idea. The customer ends up with two products, one in the digital one in the physical world, so it becomes a bargain. The added value is not just in the purchasing of an object, but in the supporting of something you like.

Anyway, that's my idea of how it might go

[Xenophon]

@Moejoe -- but physical products take up space! One of the big attractions of eBooks for me is that they don't.

Xenophon

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

@Moejoe -- but physical products take up space! One of the big attractions of eBooks for me is that they don't.

Xenophon

True, so very true, but T-Shirts are too good not to buy (I should know I have waaaay too many of the things). And they're kind of transitory objects, they have maybe a life of 1 year or so if you wear and wash them regularly (although I have a few that are older than me!).

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I think price-shifting might be the best idea. The customer ends up with two products, one in the digital one in the physical world, so it becomes a bargain. The added value is not just in the purchasing of an object, but in the supporting of something you like.

I keep thinking that one thing to do is embed internet links in the ebook file that will connect the reader to such things as the next book in the series, another book by the same author, another book the reader might like, & so forth. No reason the embed (embediment?) couldn't be for tshirts, or other book related products. Or for plain ol' every day products. Maybe the ad revenue would sustain the ebook business.

Hmm. How long before Amazon is beaming ads to your Kindle, like the ones that show up when you go to Amazon, keyed to your previous purchases...

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

@Moejoe -- but physical products take up space! One of the big attractions of eBooks for me is that they don't.

Xenophon

Yes, but eclothes only work if you never leave the house (see Second Life).

[TallMomof2]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Like my book? Buy a t-shirt, buy a mug, buy a pen with pithy phrase on the side. Everyone likes t-shirts, and sure you could copy them, but then it's painstaking and you can end up with varying results.

Anyway, that's my idea of how it might go

That's a great idea! You don't even necessarily need a pithy phrase (love the word, pithy) but simply the title and an illustration would be sufficient or just the title depending on the size of the item.

You could do this now with CafePress.com

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

That's a great idea! You don't even necessarily need a pithy phrase (love the word, pithy) but simply the title and an illustration would be sufficient or just the title depending on the size of the item.

You could do this now with CafePress.com

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I see it as a good move. The transaction only takes place after you've enjoyed the work, but even if you don't like the work, you might still enjoy the t-shirt, mug, etc. The writer could even have quotes from the book and other bits that would point back to the original reading material.

*Goes away to design some t-shirts*

[sirbruce]

And when we have electronic e-ink t-shirts that can automatically display any t-shirt design electronically, and people start violating your t-shirt design copyright, will we just accept it?

[JGB]

Originally Posted by Stringer

I should have put only two choices:
1) no piracy
2) piracy (including when it is legal on Your country but not elsewhere, assuming you know the concept of right and wrong)

That is what interest me most.

Hold your horses there.

The debate about file-piracy being wrong is based almost entirely on copyright laws.

On one hand you are saying laws are important, don't break the laws!
on the other hand you are saying laws don't matter.
Which is it?

I'm not saying file piracy is right or wrong, but you must pick a side and stick to it.

I do not follow many of the laws of other countries for example, I will not beat my wife for showing skin in public
Why should the law where you live be imposed on others and that one should not?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

And when we have electronic e-ink t-shirts that can automatically display any t-shirt design electronically, and people start violating your t-shirt design copyright, will we just accept it?

Well, you can already do that, sort of. You could copy the original design with a screen shot and then upload it to cafepress or some other similar service. And it depends on the license of the design also. If you use Public Domain images (as I'm looking at now) then you wouldn't have any true claims over the design being used, therefore no real claims if someone did copy the design.

I think the sentiment was more how you can get people involved and extend sales beyond the actual content of the book. Added-value, I suppose, or extended value.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Well, you can already do that, sort of. You could copy the original design with a screen shot and then upload it to cafepress or some other similar service. And it depends on the license of the design also. If you use Public Domain images (as I'm looking at now) then you wouldn't have any true claims over the design being used, therefore no real claims if someone did copy the design.

I think the sentiment was more how you can get people involved and extend sales beyond the actual content of the book. Added-value, I suppose, or extended value.

No, the thesis was the copyrights for books were no longer technologically feasible, so authors should switch to other ways of generating revenues from readers who want to support them but don't want to pay them directly for ebooks (or don't want to pay enough). The prime suggestion was t-shirts; I was pointing out that t-shirts would one day be just as vulnerable to the same easy technological piracy. Your screen shot idea is more akin to using photocopiers to copy books today; not equivalent in terms of ease and convenience.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

No, the thesis was the copyrights for books were no longer technologically feasible, so authors should switch to other ways of generating revenues from readers who want to support them but don't want to pay them directly for ebooks (or don't want to pay enough). The prime suggestion was t-shirts; I was pointing out that t-shirts would one day be just as vulnerable to the same easy technological piracy. Your screen shot idea is more akin to using photocopiers to copy books today; not equivalent in terms of ease and convenience.

Well then, once this infinitely shareable t-shirt becomes available, we would again have to reassess and find new ways to make money, or give up the idea of monetary recompense altogether in favour of something else. What that something else is, I''m not exactly sure at this point in time.

[sirbruce]

That's a logical position. But other people might find it intellectually distasteful for people to pirate their t-shirts, which may prompt them to re-evaluate their ideas about pirating ebooks.

[LazyScot]

There was a BBC Money Program 3 part special "Media Revolution" (I think it may already have been mentioned in this thread). It had a program on TV as well as books, and in the TV program there was an interesting observation that, at least of childern's programs, it used to be the case that the broadcaster would provide 75%+ of the production costs. Now you are lucky if they provide 25%. What was interesting for this discussion is that, if I remember correctly (okay, okay, IIRC), the majority of this is now coming from the merchandising companies that intend to sell the toys, tie-ins, etc. on the back of a popular the TV program...

I'm not sure I like this model; I'd rather have the author write a book/story they wanted to rather than them having to think about how to get merchandising into the story, and perhaps end up with somewhat stilted stories.

[quickhand]

Here's an idea. Say I'm a writer. I write my first novel, distribute it, try to get it critically acclaimed in order to build an audience. I offer my book free for download, and include a donation link (I should also decide on a reasonable donation goal). In the meantime, I'm writing my second novel, which, finished or not, will not be released until I've earned my donation goal for the first novel. In other words, if fans want more, they won't get more until I'm properly paid. This could also work by chapter.
See? An example of a simple model, which I came up with just now. The point is, there ARE alternatives to the current model.