In Defense of English

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by cassidym

Correct. It was reportedly invented by a group of young upper middle class men in Boston in the early 1800's.

Meanwhile, there was a big linguistic battle in Britain after the French invaded in 1066 over how to form the plural. English is basically a Germanic language and they form the plural by adding 'en' to a word (ex., one haus, two hausen etc). The French add 's' and after 1066 the 's' caught on in the countryside while the 'en' held sway in the cities. Yet, the countryside won this one so effectively that there is only one word in the English language that is pluralized by adding 'en'.

It's a very common word, do you know what it is?

Others have previously identified women, children, and oxen (and boxen) as possible answers to this. I'll add another:
One VAX, two VAXen (old computers from the Digital Equipment Corp.)

Xenophon

Also, claiming that "English is basically a Germanic language" is too strong these days, and has been since things settled down after the Conquest. Germanic roots via the Angles and Saxons (with a wee bit of holdover from the prior inhabitant's language -- I'm blanking on their name... ?Picts?), a layer of Romance languages (mostly Norman French) from the Normen (who were themselves Nordic invaders who'd conquered Normandy only a couple of generations earlier). Mangle the original syntax as the Norman men-at-arms 'negotiated' with Saxon serving maids for dates. Add in a bunch of Greek and Latin from scholarly usage (both pre- and post-conquest), a sprinkling of words from just about everywhere in the world, stir well and marinate for at least one-half millenium.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by kazbates

Oh, quit whining! At least these posts are short. It took me two days to read the posts in one thread of the Conservatory and I think my post to the thread may have actually killed it as there haven't been any new posts since then. Does that make me a "Thread Killer"?

Kaz

Nope! In fact, I just asked you a question over in that other thread. So you can't be a "Thread Killer." I think folks were just taking a breather.

Xenophon

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

kazbates:

The best thing that ever happened to my spelling and vocabulary was when my Grandmother decided I should learn about Latin, Greek, and Germanic/Anglo-Saxon root-words, their spellings and their meanings. If you can identify those and conjugate them (is conjugate really the word I'm looking for?) you can figure your way through most of English quite nicely.

Of course it doesn't help with the words that are borrowed from other languages, made up, or otherwise odd. But it does cover a surprising fraction of the words you need, while giving them a unified framework.

Xenophon

Obviously, your Grandmother was a very wise woman! We just don't have time to teach the basics behind many of our words. I would like to say we aren't teaching to the standardized tests, but since a teacher's job perfomance is tied to how well a child does on these tests... Well, I'm sure you know where I am going with this! It's a vicious cycle and one I can't see ending any time soon.

Kaz

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by kazbates

[SNIP] We just don't have time to teach the basics behind many of our words. [SNIP]

'scuse me? I seem to be not getting something here. If there's not time to teach those basics, how is there time to teach anything else? Without the basics behind the words the kids won't get anything other than rote memorization. With the basics they won't need the rote memorization.

Or is the issue "tyranny of the wrong-headed-but-mandated syllabus?"

Xenophon

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

'scuse me? I seem to be not getting something here. If there's not time to teach those basics, how is there time to teach anything else? Without the basics behind the words the kids won't get anything other than rote memorization. With the basics they won't need the rote memorization.

Or is the issue "tyranny of the wrong-headed-but-mandated syllabus?"

Xenophon

You misunderstood, or I misrepresented. Sorry. We teach as much of the basics of the language as we can. We just don't have time to hit the finer points of Latin, Greek, German, etc. I taught elementary school grades K-5. At one end we were trying to teach them to hold a pencil properly and use it to form a letter on paper. At the other, I was trying to get them to string words together to coherently express their thoughts. Perhaps at a higher level, they would have more time to get into all that, but honesty, I just didn't have the time nor was it a priority of my administation. When I taught 5th grade, I had to fit 5 subjects, specials, lunch and recess into a 6.5 hour day. It wasn't easy.

And on that note, I'm off to bed...
Kaz

[Ceili]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Dear Americans,

It has come to my attention that the English language was only loaned to you on a semi-permanent basis. I discovered, only recently, and thanks to Jeff Bezos's example, that when we gave you your language, we were only loaning said language for the period of our occupation of the colonies.

Sadly we now must inform you that all rights and derivations of the English language used by aforementioned "Americans' must now cease and desist. All unused U's and replaced Z's must be returned to their proper positions within 30 days.

We have consulted Sylvester Stallone (who we have on good authority is a master of American English) to invent a new language. This new language will be formally known as Adrienish and will include a six-letter alphabet.

We wish you the best of luck in this transition period.

Yours
Her Maj
Queen Elizabeth II

My grandmother told a story of when she was young... her mother had come to America at age 12 (maid job at the Untemeyers ;p) and eventually brought over all of her brothers and sisters. Her oldest sister, having been in the ould country longest, did not normally speak English (unless required).... and this drove my great grandmother to great ire... She would say, Bridget, stop with the Irish, You're in America now, Speak American! (this is a woman who Never used the E word unless it was to cast slurs, sign of those times I guess ) She was very proud to call herself American and pretty much gave up everything of Ireland once she got here.

It's rather odd, as my da's family came over speaking both and had no problem mixing the two... but would only "curse" "in the Irish"

[PhishStyx]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

I keep hearing and seeing--even here on Mobileread--a terrible travesty against English. At the risk of being flamed I'm posting to ask that it stop.

English is a flexible language with a very large vocabulary but it does not include the word "nother." If you need to use the word "another" please use it correctly. "Another" is a contraction of two words: "an" and "other." For example, you can write: "That is another whole story." You can even write: "That is a whole other story." But when you write or say: "That is a whole nother story," you torture the syntax of the language.

Please, everyone, unless you're Dick Cheney or somebody, please do not use that construction.

Thank you for your kind attention.

If you think I'm gunna lis-tin to YOUSE!, you gotta whole NUTHA thought comin'!

[YGG-]

Originally Posted by kazbates

Zelda, you need to import some good Fannie May chocolates from Chicago! There buttercreams are to die for! Of course, I've never had French or Belgian chocolate, which I have heard are incredible, but I do love my Fannie Mays.

Sorry lady --serious topic here-- you jis' don't know what chocolate is unless you have tasted "chocolat Weiss" (inventor of the infamous "napolitain") --the best dark chocolate in the galaxy... at least! (Marcolini of Brussels fame isn't bad either).

[YGG-]

[xxxxxxxxx]

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

kazbates:

The best thing that ever happened to my spelling and vocabulary was when my Grandmother decided I should learn about Latin, Greek, and Germanic/Anglo-Saxon root-words, their spellings and their meanings. If you can identify those and conjugate them (is conjugate really the word I'm looking for?) you can figure your way through most of English quite nicely.

Of course it doesn't help with the words that are borrowed from other languages, made up, or otherwise odd. But it does cover a surprising fraction of the words you need, while giving them a unified framework.

Xenophon

TOTALLY agree, Xenophon. Knowledge of Latin, especially, is amazingly useful in understanding the meaning of words, since most "complicated" English words have a Latin origin. Sometimes, of course, we get words via multiple routes - eg "royal" from Latin via French, compared to "regal" direct from Latin.

To answer your question: one "conjugates" verbs and "declines" nouns.

[MickeyC]

I was interested to learn from reading a history of the English language that it does not always deserve the sexist rap it often gets. For example, the word 'man' was originally not gender-specific but rather just short for 'human'.

From a gender standpoint, there were two types of 'men'. One was a 'wombed-man' or woman. The other was a 'weaponed-man' or 'weapman'. Over the years, the 'weap' got dropped and 'man' eventually became associated with males.

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

I keep hearing and seeing--even here on Mobileread--a terrible travesty against English. At the risk of being flamed I'm posting to ask that it stop.

English is a flexible language with a very large vocabulary but it does not include the word "nother." If you need to use the word "another" please use it correctly. "Another" is a contraction of two words: "an" and "other." For example, you can write: "That is another whole story." You can even write: "That is a whole other story." But when you write or say: "That is a whole nother story," you torture the syntax of the language.

Please, everyone, unless you're Dick Cheney or somebody, please do not use that construction.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Bleh. All languages are flexible and have large vocabulary. There's nothing about English that is so superior to other languages.

If you have access to the Oxford English Dictionary, you will be able to find the word "nother".

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

It's defence, you Americans and your weird spellings. While I'm at it, stop taking all the U's out of the language! And you kids, get of my lawn! Stop playing ball games around here! Keep off the grass!

I grew up using British spelling too so when I say the title "In Defense" I knew what the OP was talking about but it looked really weird.

Another example that I find very strange too: Americans do not distinguish between practice and practise. In British English, "practice" is a noun and "practise" is a verb.

Anyway...I stick to what comes "naturally" to me...

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

I grew up using British spelling too so when I say the title "In Defense" I knew what the OP was talking about but it looked really weird.

Another example that I find very strange too: Americans do not distinguish between practice and practise. In British English, "practice" is a noun and "practise" is a verb.

Anyway...I stick to what comes "naturally" to me...

In American English, "practice" is a noun and "practice" is a verb.

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

In American English, "practice" is a noun and "practice" is a verb.

We are all about using the "KISS" system here!

In other words, Keep it Simple, Silly (no, I will not use the commonly used "Stupid" - that's just mean)!
Kaz