A 'possible' AC charger?

[kelly1010]

Hi Guys,

I will pass on this charger that Dordale told me about in another forum. It's a PSP charger at Fry's. I will get this when I get paid. Just thought I'd share!

[Stitchawl]

I'm halfway through my experiments in AC-to-USB charging and so far, despite the little red light coming on, the 505 didn't take any charge (or lose any) after being plugged in for 8 hours last night. I have one more AC-to-USB charger to try (different maker with slightly different numbers but both for PSP 1000, 2000, 3000) tonight and see if that one works. If not, then it's Hats off to Harry, who gets top marks for accuracy, and I have to go for the heavy brick and little round plug...

(I'd sure like to know why the 505 can charge via USB from a computer but not from a charger!!! Harry, any ideas?)

Stitchawl

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

(I'd sure like to know why the 505 can charge via USB from a computer but not from a charger!!! Harry, any ideas?)

Stitchawl

Because that's the way it was made. Not sure why you are experimenting, it is known that the 505 will not charge via a USB/Mains charger.

BOb

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I'm halfway through my experiments in AC-to-USB charging and so far, despite the little red light coming on, the 505 didn't take any charge (or lose any) after being plugged in for 8 hours last night. I have one more AC-to-USB charger to try (different maker with slightly different numbers but both for PSP 1000, 2000, 3000) tonight and see if that one works. If not, then it's Hats off to Harry, who gets top marks for accuracy, and I have to go for the heavy brick and little round plug...

(I'd sure like to know why the 505 can charge via USB from a computer but not from a charger!!! Harry, any ideas?)

Stitchawl

You were given information saying to get a PSP AC Adapter and yet you still went and bought the wrong one. Don't say nobody told you.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I have to go for the heavy brick and little round plug...

No, you don't need a heavy brick; just get a PSP charger; mine isn't a "brick" at all!

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You were given information saying to get a PSP AC Adapter and yet you still went and bought the wrong one. Don't say nobody told you.

Actually, I bought several PSP chargers, including an AC adaptor.

Another poster in this forum said they use a AC/USB charger, so either they are not telling the truth, or others haven't been using the correct model...
Here is what they posted at the time;
"I have just finished to charge my 505 with a normal usb cable connected to a wall (usb) power charger. I do agree that a psp is much faster and useful (one can keep on reading when charging)."

So I have people telling me it does work, and people telling me it doesn't work. I don't know any of these people, but I'm sure that they all believe what they are saying. I have no reason to doubt any of them. But I do owe it to myself to find out what works for me.

My teachers believed that there were only 102 elements in the Periodic Table. They believed it and they told me so! It was a fact! They also believed that it was safe to use cyclamates as a sweetener in foods. After some more experimentation, they changed their beliefs. Facts changed. How much fiction has become fact in the past 50 years? (Have you read "Tom Swift and his Picture Telephone?") How many facts have been proven incorrect? Radio without wires? Ridiculous! A man standing on the moon? Absurd! My son taking out the trash without being asked? Never happen!

We have several different electronic products in the house that use an AC wall plug to USB to charge the device, and I've noticed that despite having the same output numbers, some chargers will simply NOT WORK with some devices while other chargers with the same output DO WORK very well. I don't have the electronic education to understand why this happens, I only know that it happens. Generic chargers working fine.

I'd like to find out just what is the correct answer. I don't feel the few dollars that it costs to buy the other chargers to be a burden, so in the name of curiosity and a willingness to experiment, I bought them. I won't purchase every charger ever made, and my curiosity will be satisfied with the ones that I did purchase, along with the ones I already have for other devices, Sony MP3 players as well as other brands of different equipment that have chargers. Either it will work for me, or it won't work for me. In any case, if it DOES work for me, then I have a nice light weight charger for travel use. If it doesn't work for me, then I have a few more pieces of electronic gear to go into the box in the closet to be sold at the next yard sale. No harm. No foul.

Galileo was placed under Papal (not PayPal) arrest for disputing existing facts about the Earth and Sun. Tell me... If I do find an AC-to-USB charger that works, shall I keep it a secrete?

Stitchawl

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, you don't need a heavy brick; just get a PSP charger; mine isn't a "brick" at all!

Actually, the PSP AC charger is pretty light. I was pleasantly surprised when I picked it up. I was expecting much worse. But the AC/USB job is still lighter and smaller. I guess USB would take longer (based upon my charging through the computer,) but having it charge overnight wouldn't be a problem. That's what I've been doing. My desk computer is on 24/7 except when I'm away from home, so access is easy. My efforts are really only for travel use anyway.

Stitchawl

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Galileo was placed under Papal (not PayPal) arrest for disputing existing facts about the Earth and Sun. Tell me... If I do find an AC-to-USB charger that works, shall I keep it a secrete?

Stitchawl

Perhaps you misunderstood some of the previous posts. You can indeed use a USB wall charger, but you need a "PSP charger cable" for that charger. You can get cables which have a USB connector on one end (which plugs into the wall charger), and a PSP charger plug on the other end (which plugs into the Reader). I'm afraid, though, that plugging a wall charger into the USB connector of the 505 will categorically not work.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Perhaps you misunderstood some of the previous posts.

Nothing out of the ordinary for me there!

You can indeed use a USB wall charger, but you need a "PSP charger cable" for that charger. You can get cables which have a USB connector on one end (which plugs into the wall charger), and a PSP charger plug on the other end (which plugs into the Reader).

Yes I saw them too, some that even had both round plug and USB mini attached to the same down-line, and a retractor on the main line! But the wall mounted AC block was larger and heavier than a USB only device. The AC charger that I bought has only the round plug on the down-line. It's light, but still heavier than I'd like. When I travel, I cut the handles off my toothbrush and throw out the Joker from my deck of cards... Some of the island hoppers that I take in Indonesia and the Philippines only allow me 12 kilo for my baggage. Somehow this has to cover underwater camera gear, dive kit, et. all. Obviously it can't and I have to ship things by boat before I go, but I still try to cut as much weight as realistically possible.

I'm afraid, though, that plugging a wall charger into the USB connector of the 505 will categorically not work.

Give me another three days (there is one more charger the shop had that I didn't buy, and I want to try that one too,) and I'll either agree with you completely, or tell you the model number of one that worked! Either way, "I" will have A) satisfied my curiosity, and B) had some fun learning new things! (not to mention then having one of the neighborhood's largest collection of un-needed chargers. )

I still would like to know 'why' the device can be charged through the USB from a computer but not the USB from a wall charger. The answer "because it can't" is not what I'm looking for. Perhaps we have some electrical engineering folks reading in who can tell me. As I said before, I think it's fun learning new things.

Stitchawl

[gwynevans]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I still would like to know 'why' the device can be charged through the USB from a computer but not the USB from a wall charger. The answer "because it can't" is not what I'm looking for. Perhaps we have some electrical engineering folks reading in who can tell me. As I said before, I think it's fun learning new things.

The USB spec includes a negotiation phase which includes specifying the power (current) requirements of the device. While the 'dumb' chargers just make the power available, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure that the Sony finds that the negotiation attempt with them fails and declines to draw the power, whereas when used with a real USB controller, negotiation suceededs and battery charging starts.

[HarryT]

Hmmm. I wonder if an iPod USB charger would work with a Reader? My iPod, like the Reader, will not charge through any "normal" USB wall charger, but it will charge using the special (and expensive) Apple USB charger. Anyone ever tried using one of those with the Reader?

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by gwynevans

The USB spec includes a negotiation phase which includes specifying the power (current) requirements of the device. While the 'dumb' chargers just make the power available, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure that the Sony finds that the negotiation attempt with them fails and declines to draw the power, whereas when used with a real USB controller, negotiation suceededs and battery charging starts.

Now this is more like it! (I don't understand it, but at least I can see it's addressing the point of the question! ) If the purpose of the 'negotiation' is to specify the power requirements, and both chargers are putting out 5.2V with the same polarity, I wonder what could be missing from the negotiation to cause the non-acceptance of the charge?


Stitchawl

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Hmmm. I wonder if an iPod USB charger would work with a Reader? My iPod, like the Reader, will not charge through any "normal" USB wall charger, but it will charge using the special (and expensive) Apple USB charger. Anyone ever tried using one of those with the Reader?

Oh oh!!! Careful, Harry. Don't let my brand of curiosity infect you too! The next thing you know you'll find yourself questioning what fireflies are really saying when they blink!

Is the output voltage the same for both chargers? I just missed my chance for this one; my nephew was staying with us for two weeks and always had an iPod plugged into his head. Unfortunately, he left yesterday. But in the same line of thinking, I did try the charger for my Sony mp3 player, which does have the same output voltage, did turn on the little red light on the 505, but did NOT charge the reader.

Hey, Tom Edison tried 10,000 different combinations when trying to develop the electric lightbulb. (He even tried bamboo taken from a grove about 5k away from our house for the filiment. They have a large statue for him there!) 10,000 tries and they didn't work. But the 10,001 did. That's all that counts.

Stitchawl

[gwynevans]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Now this is more like it! (I don't understand it, but at least I can see it's addressing the point of the question! ) If the purpose of the 'negotiation' is to specify the power requirements, and both chargers are putting out 5.2V with the same polarity, I wonder what could be missing from the negotiation to cause the non-acceptance of the charge?
Stitchawl

The current - the USB voltage is specifed to be 5.0V (which is near enough to 5.2V) but it's the amount of current that varies. I think they adhere to the letter of the specs, whereas most devices may not - I'm not 100% about that, but this is the only reason I can see that explains why it works with real controllers what would support the USB 'handshaking' but not with PSUs that would just supply power...

See http://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/ums_2.htm ("Device Powering") and http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshe...htm#Electrical , particulalry "Suspend Current", which I wonder might be involved...

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by gwynevans

The current - the USB voltage is specifed to be 5.0V (which is near enough to 5.2V) but it's the amount of current that varies. I think they adhere to the letter of the specs, whereas most devices may not - I'm not 100% about that, but this is the only reason I can see that explains why it works with real controllers what would support the USB 'handshaking' but not with PSUs that would just supply power...

See http://www.usbmadesimple.co.uk/ums_2.htm ("Device Powering") and http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshe...htm#Electrical , particulalry "Suspend Current", which I wonder might be involved...

Gwynevans, this is EXACTLY what I was hoping for!
I read through the first URL's pages, and a lot of it did penetrate my thick skull; fortunately most of the really confusing stuff was for data transfer rather than power supply. The second one, and as you say, the "suspend Current" section might very well hold the key to what I'm trying to do. If I'm correct, then what I need to find is a 3rd party USB device that meets the criteria, gets the proper Configuration Descriptor, and it all 'should' work!

What really amazes me is that there is SOOOOO much going on inside a little block of plastic with some bits of wire, and yet it cost's less than $10! Thanks again for pointing me in another good direction!

(I realize all of this may pan out to absolutely nothing, but it beats watching "Days of Our Lives" or "Eastenders!" )

Stitchawl