Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick.

[CCDMan]

I haven't read all posts here but wouldn't the simple thing be to simply forget about shopping at Amazon? If they don't want you as a customer anymore so be it.

Well sure, but that does not solve his Kindle issues. This makes me now want to be sure to back up all the books I have bought for the Kindle onto MY system by using their download to PC feature each time I buy a book. That way if they ban me at some point (not that I have reason to expect this - but neither did Ian), I do not lose that content because I trusted THEM to continue to provide access to my content.

I would do this backup slowly, however. Who knows if Amazon will decide that the act of downloading to your own backup is somehow part of a plan to crack their DRM. Maybe even trigger a ban?

Is it also possible for them to shut down your Kindle remotely? Does Amazon have such a "kill" or "delete contents" capability built into the Kindle? Not that I have heard but who knows? I do know Apple can do this with the iPhone/Touch to a degree. In that case, keep the wireless off (although maybe I am just paranoid here).

So I guess Ian will have to go with BAEN books and make good use of Calibre and other utilities. And who knows, DRM on books may follow the same course as DRM on music, given time it would not surprise me.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

Well sure, but that does not solve his Kindle issues. This makes me now want to be sure to back up all the books I have bought for the Kindle onto MY system by using their download to PC feature each time I buy a book.

I'm a little surprised to hear that you don't keep backups of the books that you've bought on your own PC as a matter of course. What happens if the publisher withdraws the book (a not infrequent occurance), or if Amazon have some technical issue with their servers which make the book unavailable?

I really would strongly suggest that you always keep your own backups.

[TheJohnNewton]

I agree with Harry. I wouldn't trust others to do my backups unless that is their core business. I do use an offsite backup service, mainly for my personal photos, in addition to my own local backup practices to guard agains loss in case of fire or some other local incident. I wouldn't trust my backups to a compay that is mainly an online retailer. Besides they only "backup" purchases from Amazon they aren't really what I would consider a backup service.

[CCDMan]

I'm a little surprised to hear that you don't keep backups of the books that you've bought on your own PC as a matter of course.

Well, mainly because I seldom read the same book more than once. Anything in that category is probably in paper on my shelf. I did just go and back up the ones I have bought but not yet read, however.

I do use an offsite backup service, mainly for my personal photos

Of course, some offsite backup services (like Jungle Disk) use S3, which is, of course - Amazon.....

My big problem with offsite backup is bandwidth and bandwidth caps. I do lots of RAW format photos which are huge. I can only get 1.5 mpbs here (semi-rural). No cap yet but that may also come.... External SATA drive and a fire safe weekly for normal stuff and a DVD in the safe deposit every few months for critical stuff like financials.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by CCDMan

Just how would they know who is who? Unless one is really dumb, one would not use the same username with Amazon (or any site that you do "real business" with) and a forum. I use the same username and avatar on a number of forums but for everything else I use different usernames, passwords, avatars, etc. Not just different from the forums but different from each other. I have a seldom used but still accessible Gmail account for forums and other casual things and my regular email for "real business" like Amazon.

This is a minor hassle but is just good privacy and security policy, if nothing else. Given the number of scammers and crazies out there, many on forums, I really do not think it is a good idea to be posting ANY information that allows folks to identify and locate you. This is why I hate the idea of standards like "Open ID". Although I am sure that with enough effort, anyone can be found and identified, there is no reason to make it something that is so easy an Amazonian caveman can do it. <G>

From what I read it didn't seem to be a mass banning of people simply because they were members of a forum. There were many people who were members of slickdeals who got banned because they used tips for abusing the system they read about on the site. They would do things like share Prime accounts with strangers where they are supposed to be limited to family. They would register multiple accounts to use "one per household" coupons multiple times. They would complain to get special discounts even if they didn't really have complaints. Some folks were even buying items they thought would sell out by holding them with a check then auctioning on ebay. They would then have the item shipped from Amazon to the buyer directly. On the surface you might say it doesn't really make a difference to Amazon who got the item, but that sort of thing increases CS contacts from the confused buyers, which is expensive, and when speculators buy up the in-demand items, the regular customers lose out.

It sounds like there were also folks with excessive returns lumped into this and some that may have gotten tagged unfairly. However, it wasn't some witch hunt against a given forum and its members. They tracked people by behavior. Personally, I have no problem with banning customers like this as long as they are fair about it and don't cut off access to previously purchased items. For Kindle owners, I think they should ban them from everything but the Kindle store and suspend their return privileges.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton

I haven't read all posts here but wouldn't the simple thing be to simply forget about shopping at Amazon? If they don't want you as a customer anymore so be it.

Certainly seems reasonable. One of the problems, though, is if they ban you and don't reinstate your account, you lose access to downloadable content like Unbox videos, music, and Kindle books. They also refused to refund the unused portions of Prime memberships and even gift cards. Plus, if you have a Kindle the main source for books is Amazon. You can get books at other places but it involves using tools that Amazon has tried to suppress. When the OP was asking their customer service about the Kindle situation they instructed him that he could get books other places. The only way to do that without using these tools or other DRM removal tools, which are possibly illegal, is to only read DRM-free books. That's fine if all you want to read are public domain classics and stuff from Baen's and a handful of other houses, but the majority of books out there for purchase, especially current ones, have DRM. Personally, I have no ethical problem with using these tools especially in this circumstance, but it's a bit disingenuous of Amazon to say officially that you can just go buy books somewhere else and your Kindle will be just as useful to you.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What does Amazon actually say about how long they will keep your books available for? Fictionwise guarantee three months. Sorry, joblack, but regardless of what your "Founding Fathers" may have said, I honestly think it's unrealistic to regard an eBook as a "lifetime investment".

But, Harry, this is exactly why I started collecting ebooks. To replace a physical book library that was lost to me in a move/divorce situation. Physical books cost the earth to ship. There is no reason that a "standard" format such as .rtf or .txt cannot last many, many years. I back my books up three or four times, on different media. I want these books to last my lifetime and beyond. I read things over and over and over again. The whole attraction of ebooks for me in the first place was the archival abilities. I don't have a Kindle because I don't want to be locked into Amazon's format, that's exactly why I bought the EZ Reader. I was tempted to get a Kindle 1 to access Amazon's selection, but no more. I'll wait til the publishers get their heads out of the sand, or I'll scan my own copies of the book for use on the reader. To me, my ebooks ARE a "lifetime investment". Realistic or not, that's how it is, and I feel it is very realistic.

[Andurian]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

But, Harry, this is exactly why I started collecting ebooks. To replace a physical book library that was lost to me in a move/divorce situation. Physical books cost the earth to ship. There is no reason that a "standard" format such as .rtf or .txt cannot last many, many years. I back my books up three or four times, on different media. I want these books to last my lifetime and beyond. I read things over and over and over again. The whole attraction of ebooks for me in the first place was the archival abilities. I don't have a Kindle because I don't want to be locked into Amazon's format, that's exactly why I bought the EZ Reader. I was tempted to get a Kindle 1 to access Amazon's selection, but no more. I'll wait til the publishers get their heads out of the sand, or I'll scan my own copies of the book for use on the reader. To me, my ebooks ARE a "lifetime investment". Realistic or not, that's how it is, and I feel it is very realistic.

You might also want to consider off-site storage. There are a number of sites that offer free storage - often called something gimicky like "online hard drives." I wouldn't replace local storage with them and I'd use more than one (sometimes they disappear) but they are a nice security blanket in case of fire, theft, whatever.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

To me, my ebooks ARE a "lifetime investment". Realistic or not, that's how it is, and I feel it is very realistic.

For me too.

[TheJohnNewton]

Alisa - Certainly all valid points. The troubling one to me is they don't refund your gift cards. If I were in such a situation and wanted to access current ebooks I would probably sell my Kindle. Of course such a person would likely have many Kindle books purchased from Amazon which would then be useless unless they also own an iProduct. Yet another reason to not buy ebooks locked into a proprietary, closed, system. IMO, doing so is just asking for trouble.

[amgoforth]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

After reading this post, and doing a little research (you really should try it, Harry, it might make a difference in what you post), there have been many, many instances, enough to make a pattern. These have been reported in the Consumerist as well as on several other sites.

The fact that you hadn't heard of it does not surprise me. I get the distinct feeling that if it isn't reported in whatever newspaper you choose to read, it just doesn't happen as far as you're concerned.

That is not very polite. Most of us hold strong viewpoints on some of these issues, and dialog can be very helpful and illuminating. Personal attacks are unnecessary!

[rana]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

But, Harry, this is exactly why I started collecting ebooks. To replace a physical book library that was lost to me in a move/divorce situation. Physical books cost the earth to ship. There is no reason that a "standard" format such as .rtf or .txt cannot last many, many years. I back my books up three or four times, on different media. I want these books to last my lifetime and beyond. I read things over and over and over again. The whole attraction of ebooks for me in the first place was the archival abilities. I don't have a Kindle because I don't want to be locked into Amazon's format, that's exactly why I bought the EZ Reader. I was tempted to get a Kindle 1 to access Amazon's selection, but no more. I'll wait til the publishers get their heads out of the sand, or I'll scan my own copies of the book for use on the reader. To me, my ebooks ARE a "lifetime investment". Realistic or not, that's how it is, and I feel it is very realistic.

Well said, and I am in the same category as well. The main reason I have been going paperless (or trying, as much as I can) with everything is precisely because these are much easier to archive going forward.

Sure, there will be format changes -- and I will have to do format conversions from time to time, but I still do very much expect to have access to my contents many many many years from now.

Since Harry brought up the issue of floppies -- couple years back I went thru my entire floppies collection and transferred any and all the data I want to preserve into hard disks and DVDs. Some of these were 5.25 inch floppies that I have had from almost 20 years ago.

So yes, while Harry may believe it is not feasible to preserve your digital contents for a very very long time, it is actually not only VERY feasible but in fact MUCH easier to do than more tangible forms of the same contents.

[amgoforth]

Originally Posted by krisk

I'm really surprised at a lot of you! Other than the DRM issues, we've been chugging right along in Amazon world and all of a sudden two unknowns come in and diss the company and the band wagon fills up!

In Ian's case it looked like Amazon wanted/needed to put the skids on returns and get his attention. And they did. His account is open once again. I guess I missed the bit from the other person. I understand that a few of you have done some checking and have found that Amazon indeed closes peoples accounts, but do you know the "rest of the story"? Are they still closed? Did things get sorted and they have their privledges again? It's typically the bad news that gets reported. How many closed accounts are there out of how many purchasers?

Take a deep breath here folks!

Actually when the Kindle 2 came out with no sd card slot and no removable battery, that threw up a red flag for me as far as the direction they might be going. This is another red flag as far as I am concerned.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by amgoforth

That is not very polite. Most of us hold strong viewpoints on some of these issues, and dialog can be very helpful and illuminating. Personal attacks are unnecessary!

Huh? the point RM made was that saying "These are facts" when in fact they come right from your thumb, and then make an argument based on those "facts" is misleading, especially if the entire subsequent discussion takes those "facts" as true, and reasons from there. What results is a pointless discussion, as it wasn't about anything real.
The whole point of conversing in dialogue form is that you're supposed to be able to trust at least to some degree the people you're having the conversation with, as arguing about something (while trying to convince the other) is only useful insofar as it refers to and makes use of "true" (or at least verifiable) things/statements/'what have you'. If you're saying all kinds of things that aren't true in order to "win" an argument you're just being a lawyer/rhetorician, not a conversation partner.

[Satans Puppet]

I've seen this happen on amazon uk aswell but with a device like the kindle which requires an amaZon account, the comapny can't expect this Behaviour to fly under the radar for much longer.

As for ebooks being a lifetime investment with the various formats among various ereaders out there it concerns me that my current ebooks will not work on my next ereader if and when I decide to upgrade my current sony prs505. Maybe one day they'll pick up here in England or is the nation full of purists that like the feel of turning a page?