Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[pkovak]

3G vs wifi is hard question indeed. There are some points for and against it:
Wifi +:
*** Wifi is more universal, it will work world-wide everywhere where you find a signal. It's standard.
*** Wifi is cheaper, initial cost *and* usage. Unless you have to buy your wifi account (which would be quite strange for mobile device like this) , you can usually download how much you want, any time.
Many universities offer free wifi connectivity for their students, there are internet cafés (OK you usually have to buy something there first), etc.
*** You can have your own, fast, completely free network at home.
Wifi -:
*** Wifi spots have much shorter range and much lower coverage then 3G.
*** Each spot can have it's own setting, password, limits, etc, which is harder for user who don't know much about it (and sometimes even for those who know ).

3G +:
*** *Much* greater area coverage - mobile operators are trying to have good coverage, practicaly 100% in cities, and quite good even in country.
*** Once set up, it will work as long as you stay in area covered by your operator. No extra settings for each spot you want to join.

3G -:
*** There are several 3G technologies, one operator use technology A, another B, C, D... and it is changing. I don't know if 3G module will work with each of them, and I doubt that it will work with new ones. I don't know these technologies enough, but I think you can find out your eReader's 3G module don't work where you live. --- Correct me if I am wrong, I don't use 3G myself.
*** 3G is more expensive, not only you pay more for module, you also need an account with mobile operator, so you usually pay fee for data, fixed payment (month fee etc), or both.
*** I seriously doubt you can use your 3G account set up in, for example, England, when you are in - for example - France. I don't know how it works in USA, it's probably much better, but in Europe, it's a problem. What if you want to read your newspapers when you are abroad? With wifi, you "only" need hotspot, which you will find in plenty in many cities.

Comments? Yes I want your comments, of course.

[rhari79]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

EDIT: I really do want to add I am not being snarky (love that word!) with ya...I ma just having a bit of fun pointing out a gaff. I KNOW what you were trying to say and your fingers just got behind what your head was thinking.

Let me try to partially vindicate myself from my presumed gaff.

It is possible to have an SDIO slot and not have wifi capabilities buildin, but with an added SDIO wifi card..get this support. Same is possible via usb. USB slot can actually do many many wonders. However i am not an expert and hence can only suggest what I have heard over the grapevine.

I cannot justify myself properly on the color and touchscreen, but did not plan for a Perry Mason..
Why waste time on these additionals? there is a void right now of good basic 9' ebook readers. If it was me, i would try to fill that void first..

A touchscreen iphone did not happen in a year..neither did the sony reader.in fact sony got it "ok" in its 4th coming..and if its supposed to be a touchscreen that responds only to stylus touches..

[snipenekkid]

pkovak:

I think your summary is dead a on evaluation of the situation. I have no idea if I were deciding the direction to go which way I would jump. My gut tells me that mobile wireless is the best option overall. I am not sure why, maybe because here in the US Whispernet really does work well for everyone I know who has a Kindle.

I sense that people, as in the average general public, will view wifi as a gimmick as well as an "unsafe" method of connection. People have loads of issues with their home wifi networks and could easily port those frustrations over to wifi in a reader.

The only way mobile wireless would work on a more universal basis is if someone gets the providers to agree to something like Amazon has with Whispernet (are they Verizon or AT&T, I forget??). And in some countries the wireless issue is even more convoluted and bassawkards than here in the US.

Really I would have a hard time saying I could be 100% confident in either option. Yet at the same time, if you read my last post (right before yours) I sense that it is a must have component if these readers are to see a wider spread adoption among the average person.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pkovak

*** I seriously doubt you can use your 3G account set up in, for example, England, when you are in - for example - France.

You can do, but data "roaming" charges are ridiculously high - typically around £1/€1 per MB.

[rgeorg]

Just from a probably rather naive (although perhaps typical?) user-perspective - I think that when we start discussing 9"+ ereaders we are overlapping onto netbook territory and it will be very difficult to compete. I have just purchased a 500Euro, 1-kg, 9" touchscreen-tablet netbook running XP. It has everything except long battery life. This can be worked around, especially since I am usually around outlets. It is also not as fragile as I have heard the 8-10" eReaders are supposed to be. It does and displays everything.

That being said - I still want to purchase a stable, sturdy, functional 6" reader that will adequately organize and display the most popular (non-DRM) formats, etc. I am hoping the Mentor Lite will fit the bill, and am willing to wait and see. The 6" - just for reading fiction paperback equivs - will fit my requirement for pocketbook-portability and excellent battery-life. Much as my .mp3 player does for audio-books. I only read fiction for long periods of time.

These are just my own personal requirements, and perhaps do not have any relevance to the general discussion. It seems that if the current 6" devices (no touchscreen) are around 300 euros, the feature-full 9.7" will definately compete with tablet-netbooks as to price -- and with less overall functionality.

[Over]

Originally Posted by rgeorg

Just from a probably rather naive (although perhaps typical?) user-perspective - I think that when we start discussing 9"+ ereaders we are overlapping onto netbook territory and it will be very difficult to compete. I have just purchased a 500Euro, 1-kg, 9" touchscreen-tablet netbook running XP. It has everything except long battery life. This can be worked around, especially since I am usually around outlets. It is also not as fragile as I have heard the 8-10" eReaders are supposed to be. It does and displays everything.

That being said - I still want to purchase a stable, sturdy, functional 6" reader that will adequately organize and display the most popular (non-DRM) formats, etc. I am hoping the Mentor Lite will fit the bill, and am willing to wait and see. The 6" - just for reading fiction paperback equivs - will fit my requirement for pocketbook-portability and excellent battery-life. Much as my .mp3 player does for audio-books. I only read fiction for long periods of time.

These are just my own personal requirements, and perhaps do not have any relevance to the general discussion. It seems that if the current 6" devices (no touchscreen) are around 300 euros, the feature-full 9.7" will definately compete with tablet-netbooks as to price -- and with less overall functionality.

I think battery life and e-ink sets those two markets apart.

One could say "why buy an ereader if you can read ebooks in your notebook/desktop computer? Among other things, poeple, generally, don't like to read in backlited screens. It's bad for the eyes and more tiresome.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by Over

I think battery life and e-ink sets those two markets apart.

One could say "why buy an ereader if you can read ebooks in your notebook/desktop computer? Among other things, poeple, generally, don't like to read in backlited screens. It's bad for the eyes and more tiresome.

Indeed. What I want out of a reader is the ability to actually use it in "difficult" lighting situations (like right outside), and I want to be able to take it with me and not have to recharge after just a few hours.

I find inverting the screen, so it's white (or light gray) text on a black background, makes a backlight more tolerable. But it still doesn't solve the former issues.

[pkovak]

Con someone comment if Kindle is available in Europe? Does whispernet work there? What countries? I can easily imagine why whispernet is such a great success in USA, but it really, really depends on network working anywhere you are.

Modular design for eReader is very good idea. It would allow people to choose what they want / need - for example, you want touchscreen, but you don't need wifi and 3G, so these modules won't be included in your purchase. Someone else want wifi, not 3G, and there will be some who want 3G and not wifi.
I fear that in many Europe countries, 3G is far from ideal solution.
In fact there isn't any ideal solution, because there is no free worldwide "datanet" yet (I hope you all read your daily portion of Peter F. Hamilton ), so we have to survive with what we have now.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by pkovak

Con someone comment if Kindle is available in Europe? Does whispernet work there? What countries? I can easily imagine why whispernet is such a great success in USA, but it really, really depends on network working anywhere you are.

It isn't available in Europe. There has been reports (including interviews with Amazon representatives and observation of space on the K2's motherboard for a SIM card) that the Kindle is coming to Europe, but part of the hang up is getting wireless coverage. The current US K2 can't get wireless in Europe (even if Amazon had contracts in place) because it uses EVDO which isn't available in Europe.

Note that Astak is primarily interested in the Americas, but adding wireless does become an issue even so when thinking about non-US sales. Whispernet (and the Kindle) isn't available in Canada, for example.

[brudigia]

Originally Posted by Over

I think battery life and e-ink sets those two markets apart.

One could say "why buy an ereader if you can read ebooks in your notebook/desktop computer? Among other things, poeple, generally, don't like to read in backlited screens. It's bad for the eyes and more tiresome.

Well, there is at least one netbook, can't remember right now whether ASUS or ACER, which boasts 9 1/2 hours battery. And it is not idle boasting, reviewers have found it true. So I think that if not correctly priced, 9.7" devices will collide head on with netpc. Now a 300 € 9.7, on the other hand maybe could make it. But still they would have to find a killer applications. 6" are much more portable, 9.7 are definitely unwieldy.
And yes, reading off a screen is supposed to be tiring, but after the apparent huge success of Stanza on iPhone and iTouch I would not be so sure about it.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by brudigia

Well, there is at least one netbook, can't remember right now whether ASUS or ACER, which boasts 9 1/2 hours battery. And it is not idle boasting, reviewers have found it true. So I think that if not correctly priced, 9.7" devices will collide head on with netpc. Now a 300 € 9.7, on the other hand maybe could make it. But still they would have to find a killer applications. 6" are much more portable, 9.7 are definitely unwieldy.
And yes, reading off a screen is supposed to be tiring, but after the apparent huge success of Stanza on iPhone and iTouch I would not be so sure about it.

Presumably said netbook would be a lot heavier than a 9.7" ereader. And it still doesn't boast eInk.

[SaraD]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

pkovak:
The only way mobile wireless would work on a more universal basis is if someone gets the providers to agree to something like Amazon has with Whispernet (are they Verizon or AT&T, I forget??). And in some countries the wireless issue is even more convoluted and bassawkards than here in the US.
.

They are through Sprint, actually, which makes the function useless to me far too often so I keep checking Sprint's coverage maps for improvements.

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by rgeorg

Just from a probably rather naive (although perhaps typical?) user-perspective - I think that when we start discussing 9"+ ereaders we are overlapping onto netbook territory and it will be very difficult to compete. I have just purchased a 500Euro, 1-kg, 9" touchscreen-tablet netbook running XP. It has everything except long battery life. This can be worked around, especially since I am usually around outlets. It is also not as fragile as I have heard the 8-10" eReaders are supposed to be. It does and displays everything.

That being said - I still want to purchase a stable, sturdy, functional 6" reader that will adequately organize and display the most popular (non-DRM) formats, etc. I am hoping the Mentor Lite will fit the bill, and am willing to wait and see. The 6" - just for reading fiction paperback equivs - will fit my requirement for pocketbook-portability and excellent battery-life. Much as my .mp3 player does for audio-books. I only read fiction for long periods of time.

These are just my own personal requirements, and perhaps do not have any relevance to the general discussion. It seems that if the current 6" devices (no touchscreen) are around 300 euros, the feature-full 9.7" will definately compete with tablet-netbooks as to price -- and with less overall functionality.

Dear rgeorg:

There is no such thing as naive on a forum. We are all here, including me, to learn and exchange ideas. Some ideas may be technically sound and some not. We ALL have to understand that this is a LONG thread and we should welcome people joining it at any stage.

I hope you did go to my blog on the Mentor Lite for additional info on it: RobertbEZ.blogspot.com

There IS a fundamental difference between a tablet/netbook and a 9.7 inch device. That is not just battery life... it is weight and eye strain. E-Ink will always be the easy way for the eyes to read books particularly for long periods. Also, despite the lightness of many fine netbooks nowadays... the 9.7 inch will still likely be well under a pound. While many will argue that there is little difference between 11 ounces and 2.6 pounds for a 10 inch netbook... there is the matter of ergonomics. While you can get the netbook to display from side-to-side, the controls remain as they are and are not set up for advancing a page that way.

Still, a quality 10 inch Netbook can be had for under $500. It will likely be a bit slow on turning pages compared to an Epson-controller eBook Reader. To be honest, even I am not sure where the price of a good 9.7 incheBook Reader will fall. I have heard preliminary estimation that $499-$599 is the max they can go. (This was pure conjecture; and I will ask for an update).

But, I think if you add up the aforementioned points on eye strain, battery life, weight, ergonomics, and page turning... the two are apples to oranges and there is a very viable market for a good 9.7 inch eBook Reader.

Robert B

[brudigia]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

Presumably said netbook would be a lot heavier than a 9.7" ereader. And it still doesn't boast eInk.

Indeed it does weigh about a kilo, roughly 3 to 5 times an ebook reader. But whereas the comparison with the 9.7", might work, I wouldn't say there is any comparison with the 6" (meaning that the 5-6" will always win in every respect)

[AbFabGab]

Robertb,

about the Mentor Lite..
(excuse me if already answered, I'm getting confused with all the
different models being discussed)

Will it read DRM books? If so, what format?
Have a price yet?
Will be available when?

ps. I like your blog. That was a great idea!