Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick.

[eBookNerd]

I will be severely limiting my purchases from Amazon from now on. For the most part, I've received good service. I had a couple of instances where small purchases arrived broken - glassware, a kitchen canister, etc. - I didn't return these items figuring that it wasn't worth the hassle. And I learned a valuable lesson - don't ever buy fragile products from Amazon- they are extremely lax in their packing methods.
I've returned 1 product that didn't meet my expectations, Cuisinart stainless steel mixing bowls.
Thank goodness I didn't return the Kindle book that I bought that appeared to be scanned - it was nearly unreadable. Instead I went out and bought the paperback version.
So ordering from Amazon has caused me to lose money in some cases and to think that they may one day hold my Kindle "hostage" because I've returned one to many defective items......the arrogance of it boggles the mind!

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by emellaich

On the other hand, remember that Sony used to have a music store and then they closed it down. If you bought copy-protected music from their store, and you have since bought a new music player, you are now out of luck. Unless of course, you remove the DRM yourself.

I'd just like to point out that you are allowed to burn music tracks bought from the Sony Connect store to CD seven times. You have a legal way of removing DRM, albeit, if you bought a lot of tracks, it's a waste of blank CDs especially if you're going to rip them to your PC again.

I think Amazon's method of just banning people from their store isn't the best way to handle things. What they could do is make the account restricted, especially if the user bought some digital items (Unbox videos, Kindle ebooks). If there are pre-existing gift certificates on the account, allow them to use up the value of the gift certificate, but don't allow them to add more. Ban them from making returns. However, the most important thing they should be allowed is access to already purchased digital content. Regardless if they are abusers or not, they've already paid for (access to) digital content. At the very least, give people, say, a 30-day grace period so they can download all digital content they've already bought before disallowing access to their account.

I'll still buy from Amazon, but any high-ticket items (e.g. HDTV, etc), I don't think I'd consider buying from them anymore.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eBookNerd

Thank goodness I didn't return the Kindle book that I bought that appeared to be scanned - it was nearly unreadable. Instead I went out and bought the paperback version.

Don't you think that's just a touch of paranoia? Do you really think that there's any comparison between returning multiple "big ticket" TV sets and returning a Kindle book?

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by grisjuan

I think you might be misunderstanding what people here mean by 'loyal' or just parsing the word very narrowly.

My interpretation is that Amazon is convenient, has good prices, a good return policy, etc. which causes us to be 'loyal' (i.e. 'steady') in our purchasing behavior.

Exactly. Though I'd agree with the reply that "regular customer" is a better. But it's just semantics, and in common usage when someone says "loyal customer" they really just mean someone that shops at a certain store regularly.

I use Amazon a lot as they're convenient, they have about everything I'd ever order online, shipping is free on most things, no tax in my state, etc. etc. And I went with the Kindle as it's super convenient with the Whispernet, samples of books etc. etc. Convenience is a huge factor for me.

That and I've never had any problems so I use them regularly. Also have an Amazon Visa that I put everything on and pay off in full each month so I can earn $25 Amazon GCs every month.

And buying a Kindle does make me more loyal to them I suppose, as I'll need to keep buying their readers if I want access to the books I've bought. Though I don't much care as with eBooks I only buy stuff I only read once anyway.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because by blocking the activies of scammers, they keep prices lower for everybody else. The inevitable consequence of many people returning large numbers of high-ticket items would be higher prices for all their customers.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Don't you think that's just a touch of paranoia? Do you really think that there's any comparison between returning multiple "big ticket" TV sets and returning a Kindle book?

I'm with you, Harry. Returning big ticket items *is* a big deal. Returning multiple big-ticket items suggests that maybe one didn't research the item in advance.

I always go to local stores and look at all the choices, plus do copious internet research before I buy a big ticket item. I don't consider it fair to return a product to any online vendor just because I decide I don't like it. I was supposed to decide that before I buy. If I change my mind, it's my job to resell it, on eBay or some other means.

Since amazon *did* give Ian a second chance, and did re-instate his account, I'm all for their closing down accounts who aren't playing fair.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

I'm with you, Harry. Returning big ticket items *is* a big deal. Returning multiple big-ticket items suggests that maybe one didn't research the item in advance.

Upthread, lizreed says she was banned and not reinstated after she: "had returned 2 things this last year and neither one was more than $35".

[clewley]

Originally Posted by Ian

NavyDad -

I sure hope they read these forums too... and they can see that I'm not a scammer, fraudster, huckster or anything else.

I do believe people who try to game the system or "rent" items should be punished.

But why the good, kind people as well?

I've been such an amazing Kindle evangelist, you have no idea.

-Ian

Ivan my Dear--Me think you do protest to much!

[krisk]

I'm really surprised at a lot of you! Other than the DRM issues, we've been chugging right along in Amazon world and all of a sudden two unknowns come in and diss the company and the band wagon fills up!

In Ian's case it looked like Amazon wanted/needed to put the skids on returns and get his attention. And they did. His account is open once again. I guess I missed the bit from the other person. I understand that a few of you have done some checking and have found that Amazon indeed closes peoples accounts, but do you know the "rest of the story"? Are they still closed? Did things get sorted and they have their privledges again? It's typically the bad news that gets reported. How many closed accounts are there out of how many purchasers?

Take a deep breath here folks!

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by krisk

I'm really surprised at a lot of you! Other than the DRM issues, we've been chugging right along in Amazon world and all of a sudden two unknowns come in and diss the company and the band wagon fills up!

This isn't the only reason the band wagon is filling up, krisk. There is also:

the abandonment of the previous ebook customers;

the blackmailing of the POD publishers;

the bogus DMCA takedown notice;

and now the capricious account closures. I didn't care much about the one case; it was the many, many case last fall that bothered me. The vast number of closures last fall show that this is SOP for Amazon. How could this behavior not bother you?

[krisk]

Where/how are ebook customers being abandoned? Ian was re-established. I don't know if those other searches that were done included kindle users.

I am concerned about their actions regarding the ebook publishing issues, but that is not the entirety of Amazon.

We have no idea how capricious the closures of those other accounts were. Amazon could have started off very naieve about customers and never had very strong return policies. They are certainly pretty good about shipping and so forth. I am amazed at what people do with items and then return them thinking it is A-OK. I've known women to return formals after wearing them, people to return CDs, food deliberately messed with. The consumer does indeed need to be protected, but is not always right. I hate to see what has thus far been a good business betaken down by just a few sh*t stirrers.

[Nate the great]

I was referring to customers from Amazon's first foray into ebooks. This was about 4 years ago.

And you misunderstood the word capricious. We have no idea why amazon closed all the accounts. That is what makes the closures capricious; they cannot be predicted.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi all-

I have been a loyal Amazon.com customer for many years, but today, I received an email stating that I have been banned from the site and my account has been closed, because I apparently have an extraordinary rate of requesting refunds due to a variety of factors.

This is patently not true: I have only returned items that were defective, in complete accordance with their policies. I was not trying to game the system, I was not trying to get things for free - I just wanted products that worked properly, and if they didn't, they went back.

There was no warning; in fact, when I asked a question about the lightness of my Kindle's e-ink, a cs rep said "no problem, I'll send you a new one" -- and even after I told him "don't bother if it's going to be the same, mine is OK" -- he sent a new one anyway.

I have certainly kept thousands of dollars worth of items purchased from Amazon and planned to be a lifelong customer.

The ban from the main site is bad (and inexplicable) enough, but...

I have now discovered that I cannot manage my Kindle2 account (I can't log into Amazon) or purchase any new content.

In effect, I now have a $359 brick, not covered under any warranty, not able to be used the way it was meant to be, not able to be returned (not that I even want to, I just want to keep reading!)

I called customer service several times today; the supervisors there explained that I cannot use the Kindle store but "I can get content onto the machine different ways."

I have emailed the proper address, but I'm not hopeful of a positive solution.

I know you all don't know me from Adam, but I'm a good guy and didn't deserve this at all -- and no, I'm not going to bash Amazon here -- instead, I'm just going to tell y'all I'm going to make every call and write every (professional) email I can to get this situation resolved.

But please let this be a lesson to all of us - when you buy a Kindle, you are really buying a service-

-and that service can be turned off at a whim.

Not cool at all.

Amazon, do you have any people who monitor these forums? As I've stated, I'm a loyal customer and would like to believe this is an error or some inadvertent mistake.

Will you make it right? Please help.

-Ian

Amazon has provided the government with lists of bought book from (at least one) German citizen. She couldn't travel to the U.S. because she bought a US-critical book. I don't know how privacy is handled in the USA but in Germany it is a serious thing. Actually everything you bought and told is saved somewhere on the server and the government has access to it.

I suggest you go around Amazon in the future and spend your money to other companies. Get an Irex Reader - there you have the open concept and get ebooks from other vendors if necessary.

Additionally you can think of suing them ...

[Bilbo1967]

OK - so what people seem to be suggesting here is that Amazon has become a phenomenally successful business despite randomly barring people from spending their money with it. Am I alone in thinking that that just can't be true?

The guy that Damaetas quotes on Page 4 of this thread had returned 'a number of items'. Ian on Page 2 of this thread states that he has recieved a 'string of defective items'. I'm sorry, but I buy lots of stuff and I have virtually never had to return anything! There is just no way that there have been that many issues for any given individual and I think Amazon (or indeed any retailer) are perfectly within their rights to refuse service to people who are clearly abusing the system.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

OK - so what people seem to be suggesting here is that Amazon has become a phenomenally successful business despite randomly barring people from spending their money with it. Am I alone in thinking that that just can't be true?

The guy that Damaetas quotes on Page 4 of this thread had returned 'a number of items'. Ian on Page 2 of this thread states that he has recieved a 'string of defective items'. I'm sorry, but I buy lots of stuff and I have virtually never had to return anything! There is just no way that there have been that many issues for any given individual and I think Amazon (or indeed any retailer) are perfectly within their rights to refuse service to people who are clearly abusing the system.

It's not the question if they can't buy stuff (a shop can always refuse a customer) anymore but if they can't use their bought ebooks anymore that's in my opinion a crime. It's equivalent if Amazon would request all paperback books back after they closed the account.

Microsoft is successful as well, despite the fact that their are bulling other companies for years. And think about all these idiots who voted for G.W.Bush. There are enough dumb asses who just don't learn or don't want to learn.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by joblack

It's not the question if they can't buy stuff (a shop can always refuse a customer) anymore but if they can't use their bought ebooks anymore that's in my opinion a crime. It's equivalent if Amazon would request all paperback books back after they closed the account.

Just to clarify, this isn't true. The only ebooks they can't use are those they bought and then deleted, because they can't redownload them. This I do think is wrong, and is a reason why Amazon needs to keep it's Kindle service seperate from the "banning accounts" implementation. But they aren't deleting books off people's Kindles.