Damn, that's some faint praise

[the.Mtn.Man]

I think it's hilarious.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I was referring to the Kobo employee who opted to use the quote.

I have a hard time conflating “the scribe who dared scrawl such a thing” with a Kobo employee, but whatever.

[Alastair_S]

May I suggest to everyone that you spend about seven minutes listening to what Prof. Bettany Hughes has to say on the subject?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIYArPyhon4&t=1638s

(Just don't blame me if you then want to watch the whole episode and the rest of the series.)

[rashkae]

Meh.. I'm an old dog.. I grew up when it was normal and 'proper' to use male pronouns to refer to mixed and uncertain gender. I can understand why people might want to change the language,,and all the power to you... .But this attack that anyone using 'man' to include all humankind is somehow being deliberately exclusionary is just annoying.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by issybird

I have a hard time conflating “the scribe who dared scrawl such a thing” with a Kobo employee, but whatever.

As I have a hard time seeing the offense in a decades old quote which clearly has nothing to do with genders being used in a way which also has nothing to do with genders rather to convey that these are great authors. I guess some of us consider context while others only consider content. But, as you say, whatever

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Meh.. I'm an old dog.. I grew up when it was normal and 'proper' to use male pronouns to refer to mixed and uncertain gender.

As did I. For me, accepting the reality that language changes as the society that uses it does has not been difficult.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

As I have a hard time seeing the offense in a decades old quote which clearly has nothing to do with genders being used in a way which also has nothing to do with genders rather to convey that these are great authors. I guess some of us consider context while others only consider content. But, as you say, whatever

Perhaps that I recognized the quote and knew that Oscar Wilde died in 1900 prevents me from finding the quote as offensive as it seems to be to others. Sorry folks, naught but a storm in a cream bowl, IMNSHO.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."—W. S.

"Who made man the exclusive judge, if woman partake with him the gift of reason?"—M. W.

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool”—B. Y.

[ownedbycats]

If they had to use a quote, they could've either attributed it or picked one a bit more inclusive.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps that I recognized the quote and knew that Oscar Wilde died in 1900 prevents me from finding the quote as offensive as it seems to be to others. Sorry folks, naught but a storm in a cream bowl, IMNSHO.

"

Even not knowing it’s a quote, context clues would inform the reader that ‘man’ wasn’t being used to refer only to one gender, clues such as the authors displayed under the quote, and I’m sure more once you click the link.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps that I recognized the quote and knew that Oscar Wilde died in 1900 prevents me from finding the quote as offensive as it seems to be to others.

No one’s offended by the quote in itself, but they think its use in this context was injudicious. Moreover, Wilde certainly was referring to males and not to humankind, again given that date. Great female historians at the turn of the last century? Inconceivable.

I admit I get tired of exchanges of this sort:

Member of marginalized group: “I find that comment offensive to my group.”
Person not in group: “You’re wrong.”

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by issybird

No one’s offended by the quote in itself, but they think its use in this context was injudicious. Moreover, Wilde certainly was referring to males and not to humankind, again given that date. Great female historians at the turn of the last century? Inconceivable.

I admit I get tired of exchanges of this sort:

Member of marginalized group: “I find that comment offensive to my group.”
Person not in group: “You’re wrong.”

I get tired of that last bit being dragged out any time there’s a discussion which touches on marginalized groups (whichever side I’m on in the discussion) especially when no offense has been taken by whatever sparked the discussion, as it’s generally used to end any possible response.

Is the quote potentially problematic? Sure. And had Kobo opted to single out only male historical fiction writers and also try and maintain a stance of inclusivity then there’d be something to make a fuss over. But that’s clearly not the case here, two thirds of the books displayed are by presumably female authors, and as noted earlier they are rated higher than the male authors.

But yes let’s lambast whoever at Kobo used the quote, likely found with a Google search for “great history and write”.

[ZodWallop]

I do feel like this is a completely innocuous thing where people are looking to be offended.

The fact that four of the six authors shown are female speaks for itself.

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by issybird

I admit I get tired of exchanges of this sort:

Member of marginalized group: “I find that comment offensive to my group.”
Person not in group: “You’re wrong.”

That's fair. I apologize.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by rashkae

That's fair. I apologize.

Much appreciated. Thank you.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Meh.. I'm an old dog.. I grew up when it was normal and 'proper' to use male pronouns to refer to mixed and uncertain gender. I can understand why people might want to change the language,,and all the power to you... .But this attack that anyone using 'man' to include all humankind is somehow being deliberately exclusionary is just annoying.

That's mankind, not humankind.