Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick.

[Bilbo1967]

Hmmm...here's Ian's first transcription of his first mail from Amazon:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi all-

As requested, here's a copy of the email I received:
--------------------------
Greetings from Amazon.com.

A careful review of your account indicates that you have required refunds on a large majority of your orders for a variety of reasons.

In the normal course of business, the occasional problem is inevitable. The rate at which such problems have occurred on your account is extraordinary, however, and cannot continue. Effective immediately, your Amazon.com account is closed and you are no longer able to shop in our store.

Please know that any accounts related to yours have also been closed. If you were to open a new account, the same will result and it will also be closed. In the event that you attempt to do so, we will not accept the return of any additional orders, nor will we issue further refunds in connection with any future orders. We appreciate your cooperation in refraining from using our web site.

Going forward, all inquiries must be directed to cis@amazon.com.

Please do not contact regular Customer Service again, as they will no longer be able to assist you.

Best regards,

Account Specialist
Amazon.com

-------------------------

Here's Ian's second transcription of his first e-mail from Amazon


First email from Amazon.com: August 27, 2008

Hello from Amazon.com.

A careful review of your account indicates you've experienced an
extraordinary number of incidents with your orders and corresponding
shipments.

In the normal course of business, the occasional problem is
inevitable. The rate at which such problems have occurred on your
account is extraordinary, however, and cannot continue. Effective
immediately, your Amazon.com account is closed and you are no longer
able to shop in our store. I am very sorry for any disappointment
this may cause.

Please know that any accounts related to yours have also been closed.
If you were to open a new account, the same will result and it will
also be closed. In the event that you attempt to do so, we will not
accept the return of any additional orders, nor will we issue further
refunds in connection with any future orders. We appreciate your
cooperation in refraining from using our web site.

If you require additional assistance, or have any concerns, feel free
to contact us directly at account-appeals@amazon.com.

Please do not contact regular Customer Service again, as they will no
longer be able to assist you.


Regards,

Account Specialist
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com
==========================

[/QUOTE]

Can you play spot the difference?

Regardless of what the specific differences are; surely the fact that there he just can't even keep his story straight should lead us to have to treat this story with a little caution.

FWIW, I don't believe a word he says.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Well, if Amazon abandons me and closes my account, I'm not going to much care about any "agreement" that I have with them. Haven't they pretty much canceled it?

But, yes, as you say, convertlit et al are you friend in this circumstance.

BOb

I agree. My point was that Amazon was telling Ian that he could get stuff other ways and that's a bit disingenuous. I said nothing about whether or not he should use non-Amazon-approved methods of doing so.

[Alisa]

Maybe I'm just confused but I thought the August 27, 2008 email was someone else's. The poster had been quoting another person on another forum with a similar problem.

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Hmmm...here's Ian's first transcription of his first mail from Amazon:



Here's Ian's second transcription of his first e-mail from Amazon


First email from Amazon.com: August 27, 2008

Hello from Amazon.com.

A careful review of your account indicates you've experienced an
extraordinary number of incidents with your orders and corresponding
shipments.

In the normal course of business, the occasional problem is
inevitable. The rate at which such problems have occurred on your
account is extraordinary, however, and cannot continue. Effective
immediately, your Amazon.com account is closed and you are no longer
able to shop in our store. I am very sorry for any disappointment
this may cause.

Please know that any accounts related to yours have also been closed.
If you were to open a new account, the same will result and it will
also be closed. In the event that you attempt to do so, we will not
accept the return of any additional orders, nor will we issue further
refunds in connection with any future orders. We appreciate your
cooperation in refraining from using our web site.

If you require additional assistance, or have any concerns, feel free
to contact us directly at account-appeals@amazon.com.

Please do not contact regular Customer Service again, as they will no
longer be able to assist you.


Regards,

Account Specialist
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com
==========================



Can you play spot the difference?

Regardless of what the specific differences are; surely the fact that there he just can't even keep his story straight should lead us to have to treat this story with a little caution.

FWIW, I don't believe a word he says.

[grisjuan]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Here's Ian's second transcription of his first e-mail from Amazon First email from Amazon.com: August 27, 2008

I don't think the 2nd one is from Ian...look at the date you posted. Am I missing something?

Edit: looks like Alisa beat me by 1 minute!

[Bilbo1967]

Alisa, you are quite right and I apologise for my misunderstanding.

Having said that - I still don't believe a word of it!

[NavyDad6]

I am going to have to give Ian the benefit of the doubt. Especially since there are numerous stories of the same thing happening to other customers.

I wonder if all of the attention this incident received here and on Amazon's forum had any thing to do with Amazon's reversal.

I think it might. The loss of revenue or the threat of loss of revenue is the only way to force big business to truly serve the customer.

[krisk]

I still don't believe him.

Tons of good stuff out of Amazon and one Sony Troll spoils the whole thing.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by krisk

I still don't believe him.

Tons of good stuff out of Amazon and one Sony Troll spoils the whole thing.

Why do you think it's a Sony troll? It sounds like he loves his Kindle, and he definitely handled it way better than I would have (obviously since I was the one like ACK CALL CONSUMERIST STAT!!!)

But regardless, this is still a pretty big deal. We know amazon has done this in the past, but now if they do it to a Kindle owner (especially AFTER this DMCA stuff), it brings to light a massive weak spot, and shows the potential trouble with having DRM and less open devices.

Someone else mentioned Amazon giving a warning to at least Kindle owners before this happens.

FWIW, I believe him, but it's pretty irrelevant at this point. The only thing I see is someone has a Kindle and amazon closes an account, they are stuck (according to Amazon's rules) with basically a useless device. But, like BOb said, if they break the contract, I guess the customer can too at that point.

[catsittingstill]

I'm worried. Apparently Amazon has some secret number of returns or dollar value of returns that triggers a ban on your account.

I never knew this before, and now that I do, I will be thinking twice about buying non-Kindle stuff from Amazon, because I certainly don't want to get my Kindle banned from the Kindle store. I sometimes have to return Kindle books that have damaged text (topaz books) or have other things wrong with them (an encyclopedia that had no useable table of contents, index, or subject headings and had header and footer material scattered randomly through the pages). Since I don't want to risk having my account banned if I exceed the secret number/value of returns by, for example, buying a big-ticket item that turned out to be a lemon, I guess I won't be buying many big-ticket items there.

So I will be buying less from Amazon because I'm afraid of losing my Amazon privileges. Wow, how ironic.

[Ian]

Hi all-

Thanks again to those who have provided me with helpful advice throughout the past 24 hours.

As I wrote earlier, I followed Amazon's cis contact procedure, and after reviewing my account, they did remove the ban and reinstate me. I can now log in once again and make purchases.

Sure, it's worrisome to learn that you can be cut off from digital purchases, but this is nothing new - anyone with an iPod (myself included) knows this, and I hope it makes us all think.

But in their favor, Amazon did clearly respond to my (politely worded) emails and welcome me back to the fold -- very quickly, I might add.

I truly believe that they are only making a sweep and closing accounts of those few customers who are trying to scam them, commit fraud, or "buy to try" - I don't think many honest customers are really affected by this, just some (like me) who got caught up accidentally...

... and surely, considering how many Amazon account bans are permanent, if my reinstatement doesn't convince people in this forum that my story is true, I'm not sure if anything else will.

All I'll say is, whenever dealing with a customer service situation, stay calm, concise and polite, and tell the truth. If you're dealing with an honest company, you'll usually be heard and listened to.

As I was today.

Lets all go read eBooks now!

Have a good afternoon-

-Ian

[fugazied]

I think you should take it to a higher level.
At the very least you might be able to get the account re-enabled for Kindle ebooks only.

I've never had to return anything to Amazon, you must have been buying a lot to get so many dud purchases!

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

It's a shame we don't have a friend at Amazon who would speak on the company's behalf about this and their badly thought out KindlePID notice. MR has become influential enough to deserve better respect from them. But it would be nice to have a conversation with someone from their side of the discussion for once.

Amazon is breaking my heart with the way they are treating their customers lately.

I hear you DixieGal.

[moz]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Otherwise, you can only read DRM-free works and there aren't that many current titles available that way.

A great deal of what fictionwise sell is available from them without DRM. I had previously assumed that other shops would be the same - a minority of titles that can only be rented and the rest of the stock able to be purchased. But perhaps I'm seeing a biased view because I only rent DRMed title that I can easily strip the DRM from, making them equivalent to a purchase (albeit often more expensive).

I wouldn't buy a Kindle for the same reasons - I'd be paying extra for features that I want not to use.

[Andurian]

Agreed, Amazon really should have someone on here to reply.

As it stands, between this and them not wanting you to find out your ID to lock out competetors I really have to question Amazon's treatment of their customers. I've spent a lot less there than many here have, about a thousand dollars total, but I'd have to think carefully before spending money there again. And at this point I definitely wouldn't buy a Kindle, which is something the K2 had me considering. But if they can without warning remove the main reason people prefer Kindles to Sonys, well, to heck with that.

Maybe Amazon has things they could say that would change my mind on all this. If they do, they aren't saying them.

[Faenad]

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

So I will be buying less from Amazon because I'm afraid of losing my Amazon privileges. Wow, how ironic.

Same for me. I have been a customer since 2001, and it's easily the website where I shopped the most. On the whole I always been happy with them.

But this, combined with the Kindlepid.py affair, will make me more cautious for my physical and non-physical purchases.
Even if the banned customer was reinstated, what a hassle. Their method look too much like McCarthyism.
I hope they will communicate promptly about this and explain their view, and change their system so a banned customer can still access previous purchases.