Phoenix Pick chooses the Kindle format-time to boycott!

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by slayda

I would suspect more likely that Amazon paid a fairly large sum to get it exclusive. If so then more of this sort of Amazonian activity will eventually dry up many sources of ebooks for other ebook readers.

Or Amazon may have paid a small sum to get it exclusive, because the company thought there was no notable market for other kinds of ebooks.

They may believe that ebooks are "a couple of years old", and Amazon dominates the marketplace.

[Alisa]

Or maybe they decided to use Amazon's self-publishing feature rather than trying to set up distribution.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Yep, Phoenix Pick, an imprint of Arc Manor, has chosen the Amazon Kindle as it's 'format of choice' for the ebook versions of dozens of great novels. This despite the far wider range of devices supporting Mobipocket.

It's time to boycott them until they come to their senses and offer their ebook selections in a wider range of formats.

Derek

I don't get it - how would this boycott work? Seems to me that the only people who could boycott would be those who have Kindles. Are you suggesting that Kindle owners should boycott Phoenix until Phoenix publishes in other formats - which can't be read by the Kindle? I dunno, sounds awfully altruistic...

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, but I beg to differ. A publisher is free to impose whatever sales restriction they wish on an item. That does not make it "legitimate" to take that item without paying for it merely because you disagree. It's their property to do with as they wish.

Gollu does have a point. It might not be the right course of action to get your books, but a publisher is very narrow minded if they thinks that publishing their books in only one (propriety) format will not cause people to search for their books on the darknet.

Yes, it is their property to do with as they wish, but sometimes you should tell them that what they are doing isn't the wisest course of action as it will cause people to not buy their books but download them instead.

[Renaldo]

I sent them a letter to let them know I wouldn't be buying their ebooks.

I agree that theft is theft and piracy is piracy. However, if you limit your audience by limiting the formats available, don't be surprised when people with other format needs steal your books. Just like if you leave your brand new TV on the lawn overnight, don't be surprised when it's not there in the morning.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Harmon

I don't get it - how would this boycott work? Seems to me that the only people who could boycott would be those who have Kindles. Are you suggesting that Kindle owners should boycott Phoenix until Phoenix publishes in other formats - which can't be read by the Kindle? I dunno, sounds awfully altruistic...

I think the best way to do this is to email Phoenix Pick *and* the authors whose works are being published by Phoenix Pick explaining that you will not be buying either the ebook *OR* the paper versions until they get Amazon to release both Kindle and Mobipocket versions - and let Amazon also know of your disgust and decision. (Shouldn't be too hard for Amazon to comply as they own Mobipocket, after all.)

Derek

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Gollu does have a point. It might not be the right course of action to get your books, but a publisher is very narrow minded if they thinks that publishing their books in only one (propriety) format will not cause people to search for their books on the darknet.

Yes, it is their property to do with as they wish, but sometimes you should tell them that what they are doing isn't the wisest course of action as it will cause people to not buy their books but download them instead.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way that a publisher has the right to demand that everyone who wants the book has to buy the book is if the publisher is willing to sell the book to anyone who is willing to buy it.

If a publisher decides to sell a book only through Amazon, locked into the Kindle through DRM, then it has decided not to sell the book to everyone who is willing to buy it.

So in that situation, I'm perfectly willing to get myself a pirated copy for my 505. Moreover, I would be perfectly willing to get myself a pirated copy even if I had a Kindle.

On the other hand, if a publisher has made a book available in several different DRMed formats, even if available at different prices from different distributors, or if the publisher has made the book available in a single nonDRMed format which anyone can buy and convert, then I think that it is wrong to pirate the book.

See, I don't believe that an ebook is the publisher's property, to do with as it wishes. The copyright law gives the publisher the right to decide NOT to sell the book. But it does not give it the right to sell the book to you, but not to me. Once the publisher decides to sell a book, it has to treat all buyers equally. If it decides not to, it has no moral claims to make against any buyer. (I'm not even sure if it has any legal claims, but that's a different thread...)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Harmon

As far as I'm concerned, the only way that a publisher has the right to demand that everyone who wants the book has to buy the book is if the publisher is willing to sell the book to anyone who is willing to buy it.

If a publisher decides to sell a book only through Amazon, locked into the Kindle through DRM, then it has decided not to sell the book to everyone who is willing to buy it.

So in that situation, I'm perfectly willing to get myself a pirated copy for my 505. Moreover, I would be perfectly willing to get myself a pirated copy even if I had a Kindle.

So if you find pirated copies of some of the eBooks and after that they become available in a format you can put on your 505, would you still pay for them even after you already have them and have paid for them?

[carld]

Originally Posted by Harmon

As far as I'm concerned, the only way that a publisher has the right to demand that everyone who wants the book has to buy the book is if the publisher is willing to sell the book to anyone who is willing to buy it.

Sorry, no. I don't agree with that at all. The publisher has every right to publish in whatever format they see fit, this does not justify stealing it.

Edit: In fact, this thread is so annoying I think I'll buy a couple of their books and send them a glowing letter of praise for their obvious intelligence and marketing savvy in picking the Kindle.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by slayda

I would suspect more likely that Amazon paid a fairly large sum to get it exclusive. If so then more of this sort of Amazonian activity will eventually dry up many sources of ebooks for other ebook readers.

Exactly the point I've been trying to make since before I even got my EZ Reader. This is one of my worst fears, that Amazon will clamor for exclusivity and make it worth it to the publishers.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So if you find pirated copies of some of the eBooks and after that they become available in a format you can put on your 505, would you still pay for them even after you already have them and have paid for them?

For a minute, this puzzled me, until I decided that you must be thinking that I would have paid for the hypothetical pirated copy.

My answer is, probably not. If the publishers & distributors want me to buy their books, they can start now, not expect me to reward them for delaying.

I'd be willing to pay the writers, though.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by carld

Sorry, no. I don't agree with that at all. The publisher has every right to publish in whatever format they see fit, this does not justify stealing it.

I would agree with you if the copyright & DRM laws did not exist. But those laws do exist, and they involve a tradeoff that I think of as "The Copyright Deal."

The Copyright Deal is that the law will give writers and publishers certain legal protections that would not otherwise exist, in exchange for certain benefits that are supposed to accrue to the public.

The legal protections were intended to protect writers and publishers against unfair competition from other publishers, who would legally "pirate" successful books, leaving the original publisher to take the economic risk of initial publication, but not gather the economic reward of taking the risk.

The idea was that the public - readers - would benefit by getting more books.

But now, the publishers are trying to control the readers' access to books. They want to benefit from the protection of the copyright law, but they don't want to let us all have access to the books that result. And it's not because it costs anything to offer the books in other formats. It's because they believe that they can make more money off of readers by segmenting the market.

In other words, they are trying to break The Deal. In fact, perversely, they are trying to use The Deal to prevent readers from getting books. Not just pirated books, but the original books.

So The Deal is off.

Originally Posted by carld

Edit: In fact, this thread is so annoying I think I'll buy a couple of their books and send them a glowing letter of praise for their obvious intelligence and marketing savvy in picking the Kindle.

Not good enough. You have to buy books you don't want to read, or ones your reader won't support. Otherwise, you are just doing what you would do anyway.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Exactly the point I've been trying to make since before I even got my EZ Reader. This is one of my worst fears, that Amazon will clamor for exclusivity and make it worth it to the publishers.

In the two months since I started paying attention to ebooks, I have gone from making Amazon my first stop in buying new or used books, to the last place I go if I just can't find a book somewhere else.

Amazon's behavior has been the primary factor in leading me to the conclusion that pirating ebooks which are not generally available in multiple formats is not wrong. They are using the copyright laws to drive out competition, when the reason for those laws was to protect competition.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So if you find pirated copies of some of the eBooks and after that they become available in a format you can put on your 505, would you still pay for them even after you already have them and have paid for them?

Yep. And that's not theoretical.

I have to agree with delphi, though. I suppose you could say I'm boycotting - since I don't have a Kindle, and I don't buy paper books any more - I won't be buying these books. But if the publisher doesn't know about it, they're just going to assume that 1) not enough people want ebooks or 2) Kindle really is the favored format of the ebook-reading public.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So if you find pirated copies of some of the eBooks and after that they become available in a format you can put on your 505, would you still pay for them even after you already have them and have paid for them?

Yes, and I've already done so... (not that I paid for the pirated copy, it wouldn't have been a pirated copy otherwise, would it?)