Widows and orphans woes

Pjama · 01-25-2022, 03:42 PM

I thought I had fixed my problems with these by using the readerAdobewidow=1 etc config file amendments.

It doesn’t seem to make any difference though, and I have been going in editing it again and resaving.

The last time I did it I ended up with this ludicrous last page fail.

Can anyone tell me why it seems to have made this ePub a lot worse than before?

ETA: I had to shrink the photos till they were tiny before it would accept the upload. I know they are poor quality.

I really want to be able to read some books as epubs so this has been disappointing.

DNSB · 01-25-2022, 04:18 PM

Sorry but I can't see why you are complaining when you are getting exactly what you asked for. The last page has one line because widows was set to 1 which allowed that to happen. If you had set widows to 2, you would end up two lines on that last page but a wider gap at the bottom of the second to last page.

RobertJSawyer · 01-25-2022, 04:28 PM

David, surely that last line should have been retained on the previous page; it looks like there was more than enough room for it. A widow setting of "1" ALLOWS one-line widows, IF NECESSARY; it shouldn't force them when it's not.

Pjama · 01-25-2022, 04:30 PM

There is so much space at the bottom of the page! Enough for multiple lines.

Pjama · 01-25-2022, 04:35 PM

I’m getting exactly what I didn’t ask for!

Here is the third last page, which has the lines perfectly to the bottom.

DNSB · 01-25-2022, 04:58 PM

All too often, what looks like sufficient space to my eyeballs is not seen as sufficient space by the renderer. I've noticed that on my computer with multiple ebook softwares (Adobe ADE, Thorium, Kindle 4 PC, etc.) and on Kobo, Kindle, Tolino, Sony, etc. ereaders.

Reducing the builtin padding at the bottom of the page, changing line height, etc. can help. On occasion, I've also removed the blank lines at the end of a chapter that some authoring software and/or authors seem to have an unnatural love for.

Sirtel · 01-25-2022, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

On occasion, I've also removed the blank lines at the end of a chapter that some authoring software and/or authors seem to have an unnatural love for.

Yeah. There was a book where the author or whatever program they used had added at least half a page's worth of empty lines to each chapter and sometimes more. I no longer remember the title, though.

Pjama · 01-25-2022, 06:10 PM

Well, I just wondered if I was missing an easy fix before I start transferring more epubs across, I don’t really want to start tinkering with individual files, but I suppose I may have to.

ZodWallop · 01-25-2022, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

Reducing the builtin padding at the bottom of the page, changing line height, etc. can help.

Yeah, I was thinking that it could be the same. Is that empty space otherwise filled with a line of text when there are not windows/orphans involved?

Pjama · 01-25-2022, 07:36 PM

Yes, it is - please see the pic I posted above of the third last page in the book to see what the pages normally look like.

davidfor · 01-25-2022, 08:25 PM

Actually, I think that's a known bug. But, I haven't noticed it for ages.

There seems to be a problem with the last page of a chapter. Sometimes the last line is pushed to a new page when there is plenty of space at the end of the page. It is epub only. I have never been able to find a pattern. Sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn't. At one point, I would have said it happened for about a tenth of the chapters. It doesn't seem to be dependent on the length of the line, or the length of the paragraph. Or anything different in the code for the book. But, I can't say I've noticed it recently.

Honestly, the only reason it interfered with my reading was that it bugged me that I couldn't work out a pattern for it.

Of course, having said that, I'm sure it will happen for every chapter in the next epub I read.

ZodWallop · 01-25-2022, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pjama

Yes, it is - please see the pic I posted above of the third last page in the book to see what the pages normally look like.

Yeah, sorry. I looked at the most recent picture and forgot your earlier ones.

Pjama · 01-27-2022, 06:00 PM

This picture illustrates why avoiding widows and orphans is so important to me. And it also looks as if (apart from that issue with the book I posted about earlier) the config file edit has resolved my issues. Previously when I read epubs in this two page layout, one side was usually shorter than the other, and now, it just looks perfect.

01-25-2022, 03:42 PM	#1
Pjama Guru Posts: 757 Karma: 2891014 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US Device: Kindle Scribe, Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Matcha	Widows and orphans woes I thought I had fixed my problems with these by using the readerAdobewidow=1 etc config file amendments. It doesn’t seem to make any difference though, and I have been going in editing it again and resaving. The last time I did it I ended up with this ludicrous last page fail. Can anyone tell me why it seems to have made this ePub a lot worse than before? ETA: I had to shrink the photos till they were tiny before it would accept the upload. I know they are poor quality. I really want to be able to read some books as epubs so this has been disappointing. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Pjama; 01-25-2022 at 03:49 PM.

01-25-2022, 04:35 PM	#5
Pjama Guru Posts: 757 Karma: 2891014 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US Device: Kindle Scribe, Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Matcha	I’m getting exactly what I didn’t ask for! Here is the third last page, which has the lines perfectly to the bottom. Attached Thumbnails

01-27-2022, 06:00 PM	#13
Pjama Guru Posts: 757 Karma: 2891014 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US Device: Kindle Scribe, Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Matcha	This picture illustrates why avoiding widows and orphans is so important to me. And it also looks as if (apart from that issue with the book I posted about earlier) the config file edit has resolved my issues. Previously when I read epubs in this two page layout, one side was usually shorter than the other, and now, it just looks perfect. Attached Thumbnails

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01-25-2022, 04:18 PM	#2
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 49,096 Karma: 174632678 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	Sorry but I can't see why you are complaining when you are getting exactly what you asked for. The last page has one line because widows was set to 1 which allowed that to happen. If you had set widows to 2, you would end up two lines on that last page but a wider gap at the bottom of the second to last page.

01-25-2022, 04:28 PM	#3
RobertJSawyer Guru Posts: 746 Karma: 4306712 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Libra 2, Clara 2E, and Clara HD; Kindle PaperWhite	David, surely that last line should have been retained on the previous page; it looks like there was more than enough room for it. A widow setting of "1" ALLOWS one-line widows, IF NECESSARY; it shouldn't force them when it's not.

01-25-2022, 04:30 PM	#4
Pjama Guru Posts: 757 Karma: 2891014 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US Device: Kindle Scribe, Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Matcha	There is so much space at the bottom of the page! Enough for multiple lines.

01-25-2022, 04:58 PM	#6
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 49,096 Karma: 174632678 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	All too often, what looks like sufficient space to my eyeballs is not seen as sufficient space by the renderer. I've noticed that on my computer with multiple ebook softwares (Adobe ADE, Thorium, Kindle 4 PC, etc.) and on Kobo, Kindle, Tolino, Sony, etc. ereaders. Reducing the builtin padding at the bottom of the page, changing line height, etc. can help. On occasion, I've also removed the blank lines at the end of a chapter that some authoring software and/or authors seem to have an unnatural love for.

01-25-2022, 06:10 PM	#8
Pjama Guru Posts: 757 Karma: 2891014 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US Device: Kindle Scribe, Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Matcha	Well, I just wondered if I was missing an easy fix before I start transferring more epubs across, I don’t really want to start tinkering with individual files, but I suppose I may have to.

01-25-2022, 07:36 PM	#10
Pjama Guru Posts: 757 Karma: 2891014 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: US Device: Kindle Scribe, Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Matcha	Yes, it is - please see the pic I posted above of the third last page in the book to see what the pages normally look like.

01-25-2022, 08:25 PM	#11
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303824 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	Actually, I think that's a known bug. But, I haven't noticed it for ages. There seems to be a problem with the last page of a chapter. Sometimes the last line is pushed to a new page when there is plenty of space at the end of the page. It is epub only. I have never been able to find a pattern. Sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn't. At one point, I would have said it happened for about a tenth of the chapters. It doesn't seem to be dependent on the length of the line, or the length of the paragraph. Or anything different in the code for the book. But, I can't say I've noticed it recently. Honestly, the only reason it interfered with my reading was that it bugged me that I couldn't work out a pattern for it. Of course, having said that, I'm sure it will happen for every chapter in the next epub I read.