eBook piracy, how common is it?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

It’s entirely relevant if not a single precedent exists. Otherwise, you’re simply constructing men fashioned of straw in an attempt to buttress your argument.

I am trying to understand your argument. But that seems to be impossible. I have not made any argument. I planned to make an argument after you had explained from what philosophical position you considered lending being OK. I wanted to avoid the usual misunderstanding that happens when people base there statements on totally different fundamental principles.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by tompe

I am trying to understand your argument. But that seems to be impossible. I have not made any argument. I planned to make an argument after you had explained from what philosophical position you considered lending being OK. I wanted to avoid the usual misunderstanding that happens when people base there statements on totally different fundamental principles.

Let’s assume an author were to come forward and demand that their copyrighted book be removed from any and all libraries, my guess, is that the case would go to court, and there is a good possibility that the book would be removed from shelves.

But as far as I am able to tell, this has never happened. And as a result, at this time in history, it's irrelevant.

[Stringer]

Originally Posted by Greymage

I don't feel particularly evil about this, as 90% of the pirated ones are electronic versions of books I've previously bought in paper. It may be illegal, but I don't see it as immoral at all - I've already paid for the content, I'm just using it in a different form.

You should have chosen the first option then. I guess my guide was too complicated

[Angst]

I don't think piracy permeates the ebook market the way it does the music industry. Almost all the posts I've seen on removing DRM involve someone trying to convert an ebook into a format they can read it in. They still pay for the ebook. Therein lies the problem with tying DRM to a specific device: you lose the ability of people to read the book on other devices. I would think publishers want to increase their market size, not limit it.

[etherspin]

I have so far bought 7 ebooks and have about another 10 that are from p2p where i have heard of the author but non read from them before.if i like then i will buy from their collection, i like Neil Gaiman stuff for instance so ive bought 4 of his so far

there are also two authors i own the full collection of, i have downloaded some lit files of their books that i have in pbook

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

Let’s assume an author were to come forward and demand that their copyrighted book be removed from any and all libraries, my guess, is that the case would go to court, and there is a good possibility that the book would be removed from shelves.

But as far as I am able to tell, this has never happened. And as a result, at this time in history, it's irrelevant.

You guys may be off on a side-issue. There's a critical difference when a physical book, bought once, can only be loaned to one person at a time, and an ebook, bought once, which can be "loaned" to an infinite number of people at a time, who never have to return it, without the purchaser losing anything. Again, this is akin to libraries printing up new copies of the physical book for free and letting people walk away with them.

It may be true that currently DRM schemes currently prevent one-time lending as well, but that's a software issue; it doesn't address the underlying morality of ebook copying.

[gouzos]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

You guys may be off on a side-issue. There's a critical difference when a physical book, bought once, can only be loaned to one person at a time, and an ebook, bought once, which can be "loaned" to an infinite number of people at a time, who never have to return it, without the purchaser losing anything. Again, this is akin to libraries printing up new copies of the physical book for free and letting people walk away with them.

It may be true that currently DRM schemes currently prevent one-time lending as well, but that's a software issue; it doesn't address the underlying morality of ebook copying.

So you mean to tell me that the whole matter is that you have to lend it out one at a time but many downloaders can read it at the same time. Do you think this is really so important? If it is a fairly popular book you would have to wait maybe a week before you got to read it!

Also, no it is not like the library making infinite copies. The reason is that like libraries, filesharing gives you access to the content only. Not the book own.

[astra]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

M
The specific series I've been referring to are the Hannah Swensen series by Joanne Fluke. The first book in the series, Chocolate Chip Cookie Murder is the one that is only available at Amazon and only in Topaz format. The fifth book in the series, Fudge Cupcake Murder, is not even available in ebook format at Amazon. It's available precisely NOWHERE. So, I'll end up finding a pbook and scanning it, too. The rest of the series I've been able to buy in ebook format. Why they missed these two, I don't have a clue.

Strawberry Shortcake Murder is on the darknet.
I didn't check others.

Anyway,

I don't have enough experience with the darknet to answer definitively, but my kneejerk answer would be "no". From what I have seen that goes on, mostly it's the new stuff that is available already in ebook format that gets passed around. If it's old stuff that's still in copyright but out of print, and the publisher hasn't released it in ebook format, it's impossible to get hold of, even on the darknet. It's also certain formats that have the biggest problem.

the most obvious examples that contradict this statement is Harry Potter and the whole Tolkien.

A few more examples:
The Crown of Star series by Kate Elliott and First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie.

The list can go on and on.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by astra

Anyway,

the most obvious examples that contradict this statement is Harry Potter and the whole Tolkien.

A few more examples:
The Crown of Star series by Kate Elliott and First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie.

The list can go on and on.

I'm sure it can. I said in my experience, which is admittedly, sparse.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by gouzos

So you mean to tell me that the whole matter is that you have to lend it out one at a time but many downloaders can read it at the same time. Do you think this is really so important?

It's very important to the author and publishers. It's about getting paid for however many copies that are available.

Originally Posted by gouzos

If it is a fairly popular book you would have to wait maybe a week before you got to read it!

Have you ever used a library before? That's a quite common condition on popular books. They buy multiple copies and even then the wait can be weeks. It's like Netflix for books.

Originally Posted by gouzos

Also, no it is not like the library making infinite copies. The reason is that like libraries, filesharing gives you access to the content only. Not the book own.

When filesharing the ebook, there's NO DIFFERENCE. A copy of an ebook is the same as an ebook. Yes, it's not the same as a physical book, but that's not the issue. Ebook copying: you get the whole thing. Physical copying: you get the whole thing.

You seem to have an idea that an ebook is some sort of 'lesser creature' to a physical book. That authors only have rights to sell physical things, but not digital things.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by astra

Strawberry Shortcake Murder is on the darknet.
I didn't check others.

Anyway,

the most obvious examples that contradict this statement is Harry Potter and the whole Tolkien.

A few more examples:
The Crown of Star series by Kate Elliott and First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie.

The list can go on and on.

All of them but the two she needs are out there from what I can find.

Your other examples are popular fantasy which along with scifi and romance seems to hit the darkside more often. Mysteries seem to mainly be available if they're 'A-List'. The Hanna Swenson books are Cozys which don't seem to be out there as much.

[astra]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

All of them but the two she needs are out there from what I can find.

Your other examples are popular fantasy which along with scifi and romance seems to hit the darkside more often. Mysteries seem to mainly be available if they're 'A-List'. The Hanna Swenson books are Cozys which don't seem to be out there as much.

My point was that darknet is not for sharing legal ebooks with DRM stripped (although occasionally it happens as well) but it is a place where one can find books that have no legal ebook versions. In other words, it is not a place that exists only to make ebooks available for people who don't want to pay money.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by astra

My point was that darknet is not for sharing legal ebooks with DRM stripped (although occasionally it happens as well) but it is a place where one can find books that have no legal ebook versions. In other words, it is not a place that exists only to make ebooks available for people who don't want to pay money.

Gotcha.

[gouzos]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

You seem to have an idea that an ebook is some sort of 'lesser creature' to a physical book. That authors only have rights to sell physical things, but not digital things.

Yes I do. For me, libraries, borrowing from friends and filesharing all give you a chance to read the book without owning it. And that's it. For me -who still buys books- this amounts more or less to the same thing. Kind of like sampling authors.

Making hard copies and selling them is definitely wrong. As I believe that selling the chance to read a book as much as the actual book is also wrong.


Also, one last point.
I think that if an author knew that, for different reasons, there was no chance that I would buy the book, I think he/she would choose that I read it for free than never getting acquainted with the work.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Sounds like a business opportunity for someone. A new blog called schlock wader. Providing a list of good fan-fic, and other free e-books. Have to be advertising driven, though....

I think that's what recommendation lists are for.