eBook piracy, how common is it?

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

As ridiculous as all your earlier statements. What are your qualifications to do this work? Are you trained? Certified? Part of a professional IT body? You said you 'do it on the side', which in the vernacular I'm used to means 'unregistered'. If you're not qualified and do this work without registration, qualification or pay dues then all those who are and have spent countless hours and money on becoming qualified are losing income due to your work.

The gate swings both ways on this issue. If you want to argue that by the actions of downloaders, authors and other creators are losing income, then I can similarly argue that an unqualified and unregistered IT professional working independently is also depriving those who are qualified from a wage.

You’re comparing apples to toasters. But yes, I do posses a computer science degree from UMASS. And I do pay report and pay taxes on the income this side job provides – and yes it’s perfectly legal.

So no, you’re attempt to equate work with illegal file-sharing does not hold.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

You’re comparing apples to toasters. But yes, I do posses a computer science degree from UMASS. And I do pay report and pay taxes on the income this side job provides – and yes it’s perfectly legal.

So no, you’re attempt to equate work with illegal file-sharing does not hold.

LMAO. As does every single one of your flacid analogies in this thread. Oh, and a computer science degree is not a technical qualification. I was wondering more are you a trained MCP or MCSA, or something along those lines. You know, the ones that you get when you're an IT professional.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

LMAO. As does every single one of your flacid analogies in this thread. Oh, and a computer science degree is not a technical qualification. I was wondering more are you a trained MCP or MCSA, or something along those lines. You know, the ones that you get when you're an IT professional.

F**k off - I don’t feel the need to justify my income or my qualifications with you, thanks. I’ve probably been setting up networks and troubleshooting hardware failures longer than you’ve been out of your jammies.

The bottom-line – if you reside in a country that forbids file-sharing of copyrighted material, you’re breaking the law. You can carry on all day about the unfairness of the publishing and music industries, whether they be philosophical and/or related to pricing, the free flow of information, opening up the flood gates on a heretofore repressed pool of mass creativity, etc, etc, etc – but at the end of the day, you’re breaking the law.

If you want to change those laws, awesome, I applaud you, do so through appropriate, legal channels, but please, if you want to be taken seriously where it really matters, don’t try to claim it’s A-OK – the law says otherwise.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Please let's keep this discussion civil. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone but for the benefit of all here please express your disagreement in a polite and respectful tone and language.

--Moderator.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

F**k off - I don’t feel the need to justify my income or my qualifications with you, thanks. I’ve probably been setting up networks and troubleshooting hardware failures longer than you’ve been out of your jammies.

The bottom-line – if you reside in a country that forbids file-sharing of copyrighted material, you’re breaking the law. You can carry on all day about the unfairness of the publishing and music industries, whether they be philosophical and/or related to pricing, the free flow of information, opening up the flood gates on a heretofore repressed pool of mass creativity, etc, etc, etc – but at the end of the day, you’re breaking the law.

If you want to change those laws, awesome, I applaud you, do so through appropriate, legal channels, but please, if you want to be taken seriously where it really matters, don’t try to claim it’s A-OK – the law says otherwise.

Profanity? Really? That's how you respond? Laws change for all kinds of reasons, and many of the most important laws were changed because of people breaking the law. They are changed by civil disobedience that becomes a societal movement, and eventually becomes a norm. Examples: Civil Rights Movement, Suffrage Movement, The Anti-Slavery Abolitionists - all were involved in 'illegal' acts. All 'broke the law'.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

F**k off - I don’t feel the need to justify my income or my qualifications with you, thanks. I’ve probably been setting up networks and troubleshooting hardware failures longer than you’ve been out of your jammies.
but please, if you want to be taken seriously where it really matters, don’t try to claim it’s A-OK

Ha ha.

PS. And no, i'm not just mocking you here, i'm also very amused by this marvellous outburst of yours. Your way or the highway indeed.

[RickyMaveety]

And, apparently "where it really matters" means that he has to take you seriously, or you don't "matter." People like that just immediately go on the ignore list. I don't care to be bothered with what they have to say ... about computers, ebooks, the law, or anything else I can think of.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

Ha ha.

PS. And no, i'm not just mocking you here, i'm also very amused by this marvellous outburst of yours. Your way or the highway indeed.

I was not referring to myself, but the courts - where copyright disputes are challenged.

But since we’re now equating file-sharing with the civil rights movement, suffrage, and slavery, well, I think this discussion has gone totally off the rails.

Godwin’s Law in T-minus….

[sirbruce]

No one is denying that often filesharing is breaking the law... or at least, the law as currently understood by most people. But there are a lot of edge cases, as well as a lot of *unsettled* law when it comes to ebooks. And ultimately, whether or not it's legal is not a determinant as to whether or not it's *right*. We're all here discussing what we each personally feel is right and what reasons we have for thinking so; saying snootily "but that's illegal!" isn't adding anything useful to the discussion.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

No one is denying that often filesharing is breaking the law... or at least, the law as currently understood by most people.

Also, the laws as applicable/valid in different countries.
US law is far more restrictive than (continental) EU law, or Canadian law as I understand it, while most of the judgmental types posting in this thread seem to be under the assumption that we are only talking about the most restrictive rule set.
The fact that there are also questions about what exactly constitutes a "breach" of those laws is a second issue, to which things like "fair use" and the distinction between downloading for commercial or non-commercial uses also apply, is a second issue, that has more to do with practical wisdom and personal judgment than current legislation. (Unless we have a supreme court justice on MR, but I somehow doubt that.)

Originally Posted by sirbruce

And ultimately, whether or not it's legal is not a determinant as to whether or not it's *right*. We're all here discussing what we each personally feel is right and what reasons we have for thinking so; saying snootily "but that's illegal!" isn't adding anything useful to the discussion.

A point i've made a few times now in this thread; sadly, the fairly unsubtle distinction between "personal morality" and "legality" or "Morality" seems to be one that a fair number of people posting here would prefer to either deny or ignore.
Anyway, this thread originally wasn't about the question "what is right" but about the question "how common is it", and while a number of comments have touched on that issue, I suspect that commonality mostly depends on where the people you're asking this live. If they live in, say, Iran, with a fairly restricted library system, I suspect they will be more inclined to download a book than when they live in Aspen, Colorado (even though there probably isn't a good library there either).
Similarly for people living in South America.. While amazon book prices are fairly low these days for me as a European, I suspect they're still a tad high for most students living there..
That said, I can't say the poll was very elaborate or comprehensive, and I suspect that there are relatively few MR members that live in those countries, so I doubt we'll be able to answer the question this thread posed to us.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

But since we’re now equating file-sharing with the civil rights movement, suffrage, and slavery, well, I think this discussion has gone totally off the rails.

Purposely destroying the public domain commons seems to me to belonging to the same category as the examples you quote. Like burning libraries.

[Stitchawl]

I'm pretty new to this forum, but I've been around the net for a long time. Usenet forums are little more than combat zones. When I found this place I was really hoping it would be different from the flame wars of Usenet. The name calling. Screeching profanity. Even the words 'invoking Godwin's Law.'

I guess I was wrong.


Stitchawl

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I'm pretty new to this forum, but I've been around the net for a long time. Usenet forums are little more than combat zones. When I found this place I was really hoping it would be different from the flame wars of Usenet. The name calling. Screeching profanity. Even the words 'invoking Godwin's Law.'

I guess I was wrong.


Stitchawl

stitchawl, please don't judge all of mobileread by a few posts in this one thread. overall, it's a much friendlier place and much more respectful than some of the posts in here might make it seem. we really do value a good ambiance and our members tend to pay a lot of attention to how they address each other. i really hope you'll stick around and participate in some other discussions to get a better feel for the place before making up your mind.

[sirbruce]

As a veteran of many USENET wars (and now message board wars), trust me, I've seen a lot worse. This discussion has been relatively nice, and I've found it's helped me clarify a few things in my mind.

[Patricia]

It has been relatively civil until the last page.
Please may I remind some members that it is possible to discuss views robustly without recourse to swearing or personal insults.
There have been complaints. So please, no more abusive posts.