The Lounge Covid Vaccination Discussion Thread

[binaryhermit]

It's not so much socialization, it's getting out of my apartment. I've been out of Lockport twice in the last 18 months, and it's been over 6 months since I've done so, and I kinda feel... cooped up from that.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

With my province deciding to soon lift the mask mandate despite Delta, I'll likely end up isolating in my apartment again.

Interesting. In my province, they just brought back the mask mandate on Wednesday, Aug. 25th. With a vaccination passport being brought in as well for quite a few events. The screaming from the anti-vaxxers can be heard throughout the province.

Edit: Just got a chuckle out of one person who is claiming that the reports that 90% of COVID-19 cases and 93% of the hospitalizations being among the unvaccinated whom make up ~13.4% of the provinces population (12 and older) is nothing but fabricated numbers from a government that wants to violate our civil rights. The ~84.6% vaccinated group consists of ~75.2% who are fully vaccinated and ~9.4% who have had one shot of the two shot vaccines (again, the 12 and older group).

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Interesting. In my province, they just brought back the mask mandate on Wednesday, Aug. 25th. With a vaccination passport being brought in as well for quite a few events. The screaming from the anti-vaxxers can be heard throughout the province.

One thing I really don't understand about your province's vaccine mandate is that they refuse to provide exemptions for those who legitimately can't get vaccinated due to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients (e.g. polyethylene glycol is used in both mRNAs) that vaccine clinics aren't always prepared to safely deal with.

But they are providing exemptions for under-12s who also legitimately can't get vaccinated.

But seeing as the policy toward disabled people for damn near the entire pandemic seemed to be "eff off and please die," I guess I'm not surprised.

[4691mls]

I've seen reports of a couple of nearby counties that started off the school year with optional masks and have switched to required masks due to the numbers of people already in quarantine from exposure at school.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

One thing I really don't understand about your province's vaccine mandate is that they refuse to provide exemptions for those who legitimately can't get vaccinated due to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients (e.g. polyethylene glycol is used in both mRNAs) that vaccine clinics aren't always prepared to safely deal with.

But they are providing exemptions for under-12s who also legitimately can't get vaccinated.

But seeing as the policy toward disabled people for damn near the entire pandemic seemed to be "eff off and please die," I guess I'm not surprised.

I'm pro vaccine but it seems to me if someone has a genuine medical issue they bought to be able to get an exemption.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

One thing I really don't understand about your province's vaccine mandate is that they refuse to provide exemptions for those who legitimately can't get vaccinated due to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients (e.g. polyethylene glycol is used in both mRNAs) that vaccine clinics aren't always prepared to safely deal with.

But they are providing exemptions for under-12s who also legitimately can't get vaccinated.

But seeing as the policy toward disabled people for damn near the entire pandemic seemed to be "eff off and please die," I guess I'm not surprised.

This is misinformed. The chief medical officer has repeatedly said that people are exempt for legitimate reasons. Any of those working with vulnerable people, though, will have to be tested periodically and wear full PPE.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

One thing I really don't understand about your province's vaccine mandate is that they refuse to provide exemptions for those who legitimately can't get vaccinated due to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients (e.g. polyethylene glycol is used in both mRNAs) that vaccine clinics aren't always prepared to safely deal with.

As far as I can tell (mostly from reading between the lines and consulting the entrails), the rationale is that it is for the safety of those who are not vaccinated for whatever reason. Allergies/sensitivities are not going to stop you from catching Covid-19. As for those who refuse to be vaccinated on religious grounds, again it has been pretty much proven that being devoutly religious offers no protection from Covid-19.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

One thing I really don't understand about your province's vaccine mandate is that they refuse to provide exemptions for those who legitimately can't get vaccinated due to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients (e.g. polyethylene glycol is used in both mRNAs) . . . .

Only two of the four vaccines approved in Canada are mRNA:

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana.../vaccines.html

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I'm pro vaccine but it seems to me if someone has a genuine medical issue they bought to be able to get an exemption.

I agree with a limited time exemption. After some major surgeries, there is good guidance saying to wait two or three weeks. There may be some people needing a series of such surgeries, putting off vaccination further. However, this is extremely rare.

Consider:

Safety Evaluation of the Second Dose of Messenger RNA COVID-19 Vaccines in Patients With Immediate Reactions to the First Dose

So there are two good options: take a mRNA vaccine to have potentially better protection that outweighs any slight allergy risk, or take an non-mRNA. Another mitigation, available in the U.S., is to get the vaccine at a hospital. But I don't see who these people are who can't legitimately get vaccinated due to a medical concern.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As for those who refuse to be vaccinated on religious grounds, again it has been pretty much proven that being devoutly religious offers no protection from Covid-19.

I disagree and would be glad to discuss that proof on the Politics and Religion COVID thread.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

This is misinformed. The chief medical officer has repeatedly said that people are exempt for legitimate reasons. Any of those working with vulnerable people, though, will have to be tested periodically and wear full PPE.

I think what @ownedbycats is complaining is that those who are not vaccinated due to medical reasons will not be given a exemption which would allow them to attend events/places that are going to require a vaccine passport.

As to why someone who is not vaccinated would want to attend an indoor sporting event or dine in a restaurant, well, that's a discussion for another day.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I disagree and would be glad to discuss that proof on the Politics and Religion COVID thread.

Why bother? The evidence over the last 18 months shows that religious events are just as likely to be superspreader events as non-religious events.

Hmmm... Just off the top of my head. The It Is Time Canada event in Alberta, Canada. Multiple events in India. Multiple events in the USA.

Although most faith groups have stopped meeting and shifted to virtual services, some continue to gather, and reports abound of Americans inadvertently spreading the novel coronavirus through religious events. Lawmakers, religious leaders and health experts across the U.S. are wrestling with the question: Does religious freedom mean the freedom to risk infecting your fellow believers — not to mention neighbours — with a deadly virus?

If you wish to argue the opposite, that paraphrased Thomas Paine quote comes to mind:

To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I think what @ownedbycats is complaining is that those who are not vaccinated due to medical reasons will not be given a exemption which would allow them to attend events/places that are going to require a vaccine passport.

As to why someone who is not vaccinated would want to attend an indoor sporting event or dine in a restaurant, well, that's a discussion for another day.

Peters said that she and many other immunocompromised people have been cautious to avoid those kinds of events throughout the pandemic, but that’s not legitimate grounds for disabled people to be excluded.

“Say somebody can’t be vaccinated and they have been self-isolating for a long time, but they don’t have long left and they want to go attend a dinner with their friends one last time, or some sort of event, now they can’t.”

Also, under-twelves are exempt. They're deliberately excluding disabled people by not extending an exemption for those who have medical reasons.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

They're deliberately excluding disabled people by not extending an exemption for those who have medical reasons.

This statement is your link in just not true:

Some British Columbians cannot be vaccinated due to allergies to vaccine components

There is no one who is allergic to all four vaccines approved in Canada.

Regarding this:
Peters said that she and many other immunocompromised people . . .

Unless the definition of immunocompromised changed overnight, it means that I have a weak immune system less able to fight off infections on its own and thus is more in need of vaccines than the average person. Here is an example in context of proper use of the word immunocompromised:

The French Ministry of Health recently recommended a third dose for immunocompromised patients, finding that it could boost their antibodies.

[DNSB]

A bit dark but I find it humorous that @ownedbycats quotes someone who is complaining that the government is giving equal treatment to everyone aged 12+. Isn't equality what has been demanded by various special needs groups? I have to admit to some admiration for the way that Gabrielle Peters conflated immunocompromised and disabled as though they were synonymous. Perhaps I shouldn't ask why she did not see an allergist, say 8 months ago, instead of waiting until a vaccine passport was suggested to whinge.

As for vaccinating immunocomprised people? To quote from a press release from the American FDA:

Today (2021-Aug-12), the U.S. Food and Drug Administration amended the emergency use authorizations (EUAs) for both the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine to allow for the use of an additional dose in certain immunocompromised individuals, specifically, solid organ transplant recipients or those who are diagnosed with conditions that are considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise.

Oddly similar to the quote posted by @SteveEisenberg.

An article entitled Randomized Trial of a Third Dose of mRNA-1273 Vaccine in Transplant Recipients from the New England Journal of Medicine might be worth reading.

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Only two of the four vaccines approved in Canada are mRNA:

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana.../vaccines.html

While AstraZeneca was approved, it's use was paused. I've lost track though as to whether or not it's been un-pauaed.

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