Upbeat literary fiction? - Page 2

DixieGal · 03-31-2009, 04:51 PM

They are really easy. The trick is to cook them slow, only turn them once, and use plenty of salt.

Get 3 big green tomatoes or 4 average sized ones. Wash them well, then slice off that little black pointy thing on the bottom and core out the top. Slice them into 3 thick slices per tomato. Sprinkle with some salt and pepper, then set it aside. While you get the rest of the stuff ready, the salt will draw out some tomato juice, which will help the flour to stick.
In a large bowl, pour in about 2 cups of self-rising flour, about a teaspoon of salt, and black pepper, then stir this up.
In your biggest skillet, put in about a cup of oil or more. You want it to be high enough in the pan to come about halfway up the tomato slice. Put this on the lowish side of medium and let it get heated.
While your oil is heating, take some of those tomato slices and drop them into the flour. Using your hand, stir them around until they get a nice coating on all sides.
When the oil is heated, GENTLY drop the slices into the pan. BE CAREFUL NOT TO SPLATTER YOURSELF. Then do some more slices until the pan is full.
The trick here is to be patient. You want to flip them when the crust is nice and golden, but not a minute sooner, because the crust will come off and the tomato will sort of puree itself because it will be soft. Don't flip again, just let them cook on the other side, then put them on paper towels to drain.
Repeat this until the tomato slices are gone. The flour that settles into the pan for the second round is OK, in fact, it makes the second batch taste even better.

Ea · 03-31-2009, 04:55 PM

How would you all define 'literary fiction'?

I've seen a number of examples in this thread that I'd consider 'general' fiction, not literary, but I find it hard to define it exactly. I would say literary ficiton is generally 'more' than a good story. For me it needs to be above some level quality wise with regards to prose, plot/structure, have... that vague word; 'depth'. Something that goes beyond plain entertainment - and is well done, too - gourmet food for the mind.

wayspooled · 03-31-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea

How would you all define 'literary fiction'?

I've seen a number of examples in this thread that I'd consider 'general' fiction, not literary, but I find it hard to define it exactly. I would say literary ficiton is generally 'more' than a good story. For me it needs to be above some level quality wise with regards to prose, plot/structure, have... that vague word; 'depth'. Something that goes beyond plain entertainment - and is well done, too - gourmet food for the mind.

That's more or less how I would define it.

DixieGal · 03-31-2009, 05:05 PM

There are canons that everyone has to read in college. Those are "Great Literature" mostly because somebody decided they were Great a long time ago. I always sort of base it on whether it has stood the test of time, or whether it has the power to change you.

Shakespeare's work has stood the test of time very well and is still relevant. The characters are archetypal and can be easily found in any community. The stories ring true still today. I don't personally find this to be quite so true in Victorian literature, although the millions of Jane Austen fans would probably eviscerate me for saying so.

Books like A Passage to India or The Great Gatsby or Ulysses still have the power to change an individual. After you read them, you are left with a new view of the world, like your eyes have opened a little bit wider.

To me, however, these criteria apply just as well to a book coming out next month as a book published 400 yrs ago. We never know when the next Great Literature will appear, but only that it will.

wayspooled · 03-31-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

They are really easy. The trick is to cook them slow, only turn them once, and use plenty of salt.

Get 3 big green tomatoes or 4 average sized ones. Wash them well, then slice off that little black pointy thing on the bottom and core out the top. Slice them into 3 thick slices per tomato. Sprinkle with some salt and pepper, then set it aside. While you get the rest of the stuff ready, the salt will draw out some tomato juice, which will help the flour to stick.
In a large bowl, pour in about 2 cups of self-rising flour, about a teaspoon of salt, and black pepper, then stir this up.
In your biggest skillet, put in about a cup of oil or more. You want it to be high enough in the pan to come about halfway up the tomato slice. Put this on the lowish side of medium and let it get heated.
While your oil is heating, take some of those tomato slices and drop them into the flour. Using your hand, stir them around until they get a nice coating on all sides.
When the oil is heated, GENTLY drop the slices into the pan. BE CAREFUL NOT TO SPLATTER YOURSELF. Then do some more slices until the pan is full.
The trick here is to be patient. You want to flip them when the crust is nice and golden, but not a minute sooner, because the crust will come off and the tomato will sort of puree itself because it will be soft. Don't flip again, just let them cook on the other side, then put them on paper towels to drain.
Repeat this until the tomato slices are gone. The flour that settles into the pan for the second round is OK, in fact, it makes the second batch taste even better.

Thanks very much!

If I'm inspired to cook, I'll give that a shot. I'm a kind of warm up stuff, out of the box, sandwiches and take out guy unfortunately. I've always admired those that could cook but two limitations I have recognized are my black thumb with plants and burnt thumb with anything but steaks.

I'm so bad at cooking - my ex-wife couldn't even cook. <laughs> I copied your recipe and saved it though, might try this weekend.

Xenophon · 03-31-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

I don't personally find this to be quite so true in Victorian literature, although the millions of Jane Austen fans would probably eviscerate me for saying so.

Kill the blasphemer! !!!

Xenophon

DixieGal · 03-31-2009, 05:10 PM

Where do you guys place poetry in this conversation about literature?

I'm a big fan of the poets from the 20's and 30's, but also medieval poets. However, my friend _______ writes in rhyming couplets - from her heart - and although her poetry is a bit primitive in style, the emotion that she is able to capture always brings a tear to my eye. She just sits down, says she is going to write a poem during lunch, and then emails it to us. Amazing!

DixieGal · 03-31-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon

Kill the blasphemer! !!!

Xenophon

[gulp] Tell my husband I loved him!

Moejoe · 03-31-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Where do you guys place poetry in this conversation about literature?

I'm a big fan of the poets from the 20's and 30's, but also medieval poets. However, my friend _______ writes in rhyming couplets - from her heart - and although her poetry is a bit primitive in style, the emotion that she is able to capture always brings a tear to my eye. She just sits down, says she is going to write a poem during lunch, and then emails it to us. Amazing!

My favourite poets are ee cummings and emily dickinson, with a little ezra pound, dylan thomas and ts eliot on the side. I think the popular song took the place of poetry in the 60's and I haven't read anything in poetry that's recent that has stirred my emotions as much as the poets I mentioned earlier.

julia · 03-31-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Anything by the wonderful Banana Yoshimoto. I would advise Kitchen, which although it is about death and other things, is still quite a bright and sunny novel.

i haven't seen her books as ebooks. where did you buy them.
love her books!

DixieGal · 03-31-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

My favourite poets are ee cummings and emily dickinson, with a little ezra pound, dylan thomas and ts eliot on the side. I think the popular song took the place of poetry in the 60's and I haven't read anything in poetry that's recent that has stirred my emotions as much as the poets I mentioned earlier.

Those are among my favorites also! You know, April is the cruelist month, don't you?

taosaur · 04-01-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

There are canons that everyone has to read in college. Those are "Great Literature" mostly because somebody decided they were Great a long time ago. I always sort of base it on whether it has stood the test of time, or whether it has the power to change you.

Shakespeare's work has stood the test of time very well and is still relevant. The characters are archetypal and can be easily found in any community. The stories ring true still today. I don't personally find this to be quite so true in Victorian literature, although the millions of Jane Austen fans would probably eviscerate me for saying so.

Books like A Passage to India or The Great Gatsby or Ulysses still have the power to change an individual. After you read them, you are left with a new view of the world, like your eyes have opened a little bit wider.

To me, however, these criteria apply just as well to a book coming out next month as a book published 400 yrs ago. We never know when the next Great Literature will appear, but only that it will.

"Great Literature" and literary fiction are not necessarily the same thing. Shakespeare's work, while certainly great literature, was genre material produced for general consumption. Both general and literary fiction can find its way into canon; what distinguishes literary fiction is not so much quality or endurance, but idiosyncrasy.

General fiction relies on convention: structured plot, near-journalistic (or alternately, florid) prose, easily recognized character relationships, and typically a third-person omniscient or roving third-person limited perspective. Literary fiction may discard an advancing plot (The Sound and the Fury), specific characters (If on a Winter's Night a Traveler) or even spelling and syntax (Finnegan's Wake), operating by its own rules. It requires more effort of interpretation from the reader, but it can convey thought-structures beyond the means of conventional storytelling.

Ea · 04-01-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taosaur

General fiction relies on convention: structured plot, near-journalistic (or alternately, florid) prose, easily recognized character relationships, and typically a third-person omniscient or roving third-person limited perspective. Literary fiction may discard an advancing plot (The Sound and the Fury), specific characters (If on a Winter's Night a Traveler) or even spelling and syntax (Finnegan's Wake), operating by its own rules. It requires more effort of interpretation from the reader, but it can convey thought-structures beyond the means of conventional storytelling.

Thank you

That was exactly what I was trying to say, especially this. "... It requires more effort of interpretation from the reader, but it can convey thought-structures beyond the means of conventional storytelling." This is exactly what makes it 'harder' and overall more rewarding to read - for me.

taosaur · 04-01-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea

Thnka you

That was exactly what I was trying to say, especially this. "... It requires more effort of interpretation from the reader, but it can convey thought-structures beyond the means of conventional storytelling." This is exactly what makes it 'harder' and overall more rewarding to read - for me.

I like a mix. I'll usually read 3-4 sci-fi or supernatural/horror novels for every 1 literary or borderline literary work. Also there are some quite idiosyncratic but also rather crap novels out there, in profusion

In film I'm also a big fan of "4th gen genre," the work that emerges after the films that started a genre have given way to endless imitation and then parody. Eventually, someone digests the previous generations, reconnects with the appeal of the source material, and makes the themes relevant again, resulting in something like The Unforgiven, or Millers Crossing. I'm not sure if I see the same progression in written fiction. Instead you get meta-textual works, like "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman, and both imitative and original works appear continuously. Has anyone read any genre work that fits the bill, that transcends imitation and parody to reinvent the genre's conventions?

Ea · 04-22-2009, 11:48 AM

I wanted to re-read this book before writing a longer review and recommendation - but that is not in the cards right now, so I'll just recommend "The end of Mr. Y" by Scarlett Thomas as a fun and interesting literary book.

At least it's fun and interesting if you can get a little excited about 20th century philosophy, among other things decontructionism and phenomenology

I don't know a lot about it myself, only enough to recognise the ideas and to look them up and read more.

Here's a review

It was a fun read, I haven't read such a fun and interesting book in a long time. There's a surface story that is good in itself, but there's also many layers, some more subtle than others. And when you're finished with it, go back to the beginning and read the first paragraph again...

I bought it as an epub version from Waterstones. I'm not sure if it's available in other formats.

03-31-2009, 04:51 PM	#16
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	They are really easy. The trick is to cook them slow, only turn them once, and use plenty of salt. Get 3 big green tomatoes or 4 average sized ones. Wash them well, then slice off that little black pointy thing on the bottom and core out the top. Slice them into 3 thick slices per tomato. Sprinkle with some salt and pepper, then set it aside. While you get the rest of the stuff ready, the salt will draw out some tomato juice, which will help the flour to stick. In a large bowl, pour in about 2 cups of self-rising flour, about a teaspoon of salt, and black pepper, then stir this up. In your biggest skillet, put in about a cup of oil or more. You want it to be high enough in the pan to come about halfway up the tomato slice. Put this on the lowish side of medium and let it get heated. While your oil is heating, take some of those tomato slices and drop them into the flour. Using your hand, stir them around until they get a nice coating on all sides. When the oil is heated, GENTLY drop the slices into the pan. BE CAREFUL NOT TO SPLATTER YOURSELF. Then do some more slices until the pan is full. The trick here is to be patient. You want to flip them when the crust is nice and golden, but not a minute sooner, because the crust will come off and the tomato will sort of puree itself because it will be soft. Don't flip again, just let them cook on the other side, then put them on paper towels to drain. Repeat this until the tomato slices are gone. The flour that settles into the pan for the second round is OK, in fact, it makes the second batch taste even better.

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03-31-2009, 04:55 PM	#17
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	How would you all define 'literary fiction'? I've seen a number of examples in this thread that I'd consider 'general' fiction, not literary, but I find it hard to define it exactly. I would say literary ficiton is generally 'more' than a good story. For me it needs to be above some level quality wise with regards to prose, plot/structure, have... that vague word; 'depth'. Something that goes beyond plain entertainment - and is well done, too - gourmet food for the mind.

03-31-2009, 05:05 PM	#19
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	There are canons that everyone has to read in college. Those are "Great Literature" mostly because somebody decided they were Great a long time ago. I always sort of base it on whether it has stood the test of time, or whether it has the power to change you. Shakespeare's work has stood the test of time very well and is still relevant. The characters are archetypal and can be easily found in any community. The stories ring true still today. I don't personally find this to be quite so true in Victorian literature, although the millions of Jane Austen fans would probably eviscerate me for saying so. Books like A Passage to India or The Great Gatsby or Ulysses still have the power to change an individual. After you read them, you are left with a new view of the world, like your eyes have opened a little bit wider. To me, however, these criteria apply just as well to a book coming out next month as a book published 400 yrs ago. We never know when the next Great Literature will appear, but only that it will.

03-31-2009, 05:10 PM	#22
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	Where do you guys place poetry in this conversation about literature? I'm a big fan of the poets from the 20's and 30's, but also medieval poets. However, my friend _______ writes in rhyming couplets - from her heart - and although her poetry is a bit primitive in style, the emotion that she is able to capture always brings a tear to my eye. She just sits down, says she is going to write a poem during lunch, and then emails it to us. Amazing!

04-22-2009, 11:48 AM	#30
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	I wanted to re-read this book before writing a longer review and recommendation - but that is not in the cards right now, so I'll just recommend "The end of Mr. Y" by Scarlett Thomas as a fun and interesting literary book. At least it's fun and interesting if you can get a little excited about 20th century philosophy, among other things decontructionism and phenomenology I don't know a lot about it myself, only enough to recognise the ideas and to look them up and read more. Here's a review It was a fun read, I haven't read such a fun and interesting book in a long time. There's a surface story that is good in itself, but there's also many layers, some more subtle than others. And when you're finished with it, go back to the beginning and read the first paragraph again... I bought it as an epub version from Waterstones. I'm not sure if it's available in other formats.