How to make a Kobo private and vendor-independent ?

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Odessa

That's not where I would look for it, and I have been using computers for 40 years now. I explained where I would look for it : where everybody else puts it, with good reasons. And I explained why it was hidden.

No you didn't. You just claimed wasn't obvious. Just looking at three pages I have opened at the moment, MobileRead, IMDB, Tor and Smashwords, the link to the privacy page is in roughly the same place that Kobo has it - in the footer of each page.

This is one of the most non-private privacy statements I've come across. But I won't pick a fight with you over this. Privacy is important to some users, obviously it's not a concern of yours.

Sorry, but I don't see anything unusual in that statement. Quickly reading through the privacy policies mentioned above, I don't see it as being much different.

I didn't comment on the bits you highlighted before, but, most of them are legal requirements for any company. And two of them are basically technical requirements for any website.

[Uschiekid]

As other people's responses have made clear, Kobo can't get info you don't give it.

But you can't have it both ways. Either you want services from them (buying books directly, sync functions, updating using sync) or you can live without those services and so you use your Kobo without those functions. Pretty much everything can be done independently of Kobo, just not quite so well, or as conveniently or efficiently.

You can update manually.
You can buy from other stores or Kobo and sideload, keep your WIFI off, and besides Kobo doesn't collect individual book information about anything sideloaded, from them or not from them.
You can organize so much through using calibre.

If you create an account with even a non-existent email, it still works and then you can turn off wifi, save battery and use your Kobo without Kobo ever knowing anything about you. If you are worried about them knowing your IP address from your initial setup, you can setup using a different wifi. Kobo can't share anything about what's on your Kobo, if they don't know what's on your Kobo. The only reason they would know is if you buy and sync from them.

Look, I actually do care about privacy a lot. This is despite the fact I have 0 things in my life that I need to hide. I just am a private person who dislikes sharing info, especially when companies gather and monetize it. I read countless privacy statements that almost no one reads. But I am also realistic and the fact that you as a privacy-conscious person *can still use a Kobo without sharing any real information* is quite important to remember. I mean, in essence, you could use a Kobo like a burner phone. But you have to accept that has it's limitations. Guess what, you don't get the convenience of a iPhone with a burner phone. It's privacy or ultra-convenience, you can't have both.
And try using a Kindle without giving Amazon any info. Good luck with that.

I am frustrated when every one just accepts the status quo. I don't like a world built around "the most convenient", to the detriment of so much else. But to me, there is so much room for shades of grey with a company like Kobo, where you can have convenience if that's what is most important and you can have privacy, if that's what's most important. The amount of things in the world where you have 0 room for different priorities and it is just a black and white choice of yes or no is ridiculous and what deserves any ire you seem to have about this.

[John F]

I agree with David, the link to the privacy statement seems similar to other sites, at least here in the U.S., and their privacy policy seems rather standard, again for the U.S.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

I agree with David, the link to the privacy statement seems similar to other sites, at least here in the U.S., and their privacy policy seems rather standard, again for the U.S.

Add Canada to the list of countries where the privacy statements I see are very similar to the ones in Australia and the US.

For what it's worth, when I look at the footer while using MobileRead, one of the links is labelled Privacy.

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by Uschiekid

And try using a Kindle without giving Amazon any info. Good luck with that.

Actually,. it's pretty easy... buy your Kindle in a store,, fail to connect to wifi the first time, and when you go back, there sill be a link to "Skip Setup",, or registration or whatever, and kindle just works, with some functions reduced.. (The cloud services, such as Translations and Wki lookups, of course,, but also, you will not be able to create collection on the device, for some odd reason.)


Edit: Before you do this, I have to to my pain discovered another fairly big drawback. If you decide you want to register you Kindle afterall, it will forget, or should I say,, Ignore, all your bookmarks and reading position. Even more odd, if you then unregister the Kindle again, they will be back.

[Uschiekid]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Actually,. it's pretty easy... buy your Kindle in a store,, fail to connect to wifi the first time, and when you go back, there sill be a link to "Skip Setup",, or registration or whatever, and kindle just works, with some functions reduced.. (The cloud services, such as Translations and Wki lookups, of course,, but also, you will not be able to create collection on the device, for some odd reason.)


Edit: Before you do this, I have to to my pain discovered another fairly big drawback. If you decide you want to register you Kindle afterall, it will forget, or should I say,, Ignore, all your bookmarks and reading position. Even more odd, if you then unregister the Kindle again, they will be back.

Ah, didn't know that. Might work for the OP then.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Add Canada to the list of countries where the privacy statements I see are very similar to the ones in Australia and the US.

For what it's worth, when I look at the footer while using MobileRead, one of the links is labelled Privacy.

And for the record, my objections to @Odessa's comments are much more about the claim that the privacy statement is hidden and that it is "most non-private privacy statements I've come across" than anything else. And I seem to have forgotten to ask @Odessa for examples of what they consider to be better example.

[crasspumpkins]

Originally Posted by rashkae

Actually,. it's pretty easy... buy your Kindle in a store,, fail to connect to wifi the first time, and when you go back, there sill be a link to "Skip Setup",, or registration or whatever, and kindle just works, with some functions reduced.. (The cloud services, such as Translations and Wki lookups, of course,, but also, you will not be able to create collection on the device, for some odd reason.)


Edit: Before you do this, I have to to my pain discovered another fairly big drawback. If you decide you want to register you Kindle afterall, it will forget, or should I say,, Ignore, all your bookmarks and reading position. Even more odd, if you then unregister the Kindle again, they will be back.

Another drawback: if you want to convert your sideloaded books to KFX (to get features like Enhanced Typesetting), you'll need to use Kindle Previewer, which phones home to Amazon when you convert a book. I have this blocked using Little Snitch, but I resent that I have to do it.

This limitation is the reason why I bought an Elipsa. From what I can tell, KEPUB conversion doesn't require a call to Kobo.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by davidfor

And for the record, my objections to @Odessa's comments are much more about the claim that the privacy statement is hidden and that it is "most non-private privacy statements I've come across" than anything else. And I seem to have forgotten to ask @Odessa for examples of what they consider to be better example.

It could be worse. One site I used to back in the early 2010's use had a statement in the TOS, that if any of the conditions of the TOS were violated, you were required to send your first born child to the operator of the web site. When I questioned this, I was told that in 3 years and hundreds of visitors, only 6 had read the EULA and questioned that section.

[JSWolf]

I just went to Kobo.com and I found the privacy notice link in less then 1 minute.

[crasspumpkins]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I just went to Kobo.com and I found the privacy notice link in less then 1 minute.

Those policies aren't worth the paper they're printed on (so to speak). Odessa's concerns are about having their access to books revoked or their highlights / notes tracked. As well, it appears the policy speaks to what they do on the website, not what they collect from the devices. Would be interested in a link to what they collect from the devices.

The registration hack is not so difficult. Using a one-time email address is a decent alternative, but keep in mind that tracking via email address is no longer necessary. It is merely one identifier. Corporations use IP address, MAC address, adjacent Bluetooth signals, WiFi SSIDs saved in memory... all of these to track people. If the concern is having your access to books revoked or your notes/highlights/page turns tracked, the best solution is to turn WiFi off and never turn it on again.

You can still buy books from the Kobo store and side load them. Just be sure to strip the DRM from it so you don't have to use ADE.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by crasspumpkins

Those policies aren't worth the paper they're printed on (so to speak). Odessa's concerns are about having their access to books revoked or their highlights / notes tracked. As well, it appears the policy speaks to what they do on the website, not what they collect from the devices. Would be interested in a link to what they collect from the devices.

I've never once read of anyone losing access to their Kobo purchased eBooks.

The registration hack is not so difficult. Using a one-time email address is a decent alternative, but keep in mind that tracking via email address is no longer necessary. It is merely one identifier. Corporations use IP address, MAC address, adjacent Bluetooth signals, WiFi SSIDs saved in memory... all of these to track people. If the concern is having your access to books revoked or your notes/highlights/page turns tracked, the best solution is to turn WiFi off and never turn it on again.

The reg hack is worthless. a few times already Kobo has changed the firmware so that the hack was not valid requiring restarting. It's not worth the hassle. You could create a GMail or an Outlook account just for use with Kobo if you want. I would not use an invalid email address. It's not worth it.

You can still buy books from the Kobo store and side load them. Just be sure to strip the DRM from it so you don't have to use ADE.

That's what I do. But, I do not download KePub. I download ePub as ePub is the format for the copy to keep. So I do have to use ADE. if I want KePub, I have a choice of tools to convert ePub to KePub.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by crasspumpkins

Those policies aren't worth the paper they're printed on (so to speak). Odessa's concerns are about having their access to books revoked or their highlights / notes tracked.

Did you read @Odessa's first post? Preventing loss of the books is the third thing mentioned. And hasn't been mentioned since. Their primary concern seems to be privacy.

As well, it appears the policy speaks to what they do on the website, not what they collect from the devices. Would be interested in a link to what they collect from the devices.

No, it is for all access to Kobo services no matter what means. It does mention through device, and it mentions actions that do not happen when using the store via the browser. Remember, this all started because @Odessa found the link to that privacy statement on their device. Then started complaining how hard it was to find. I mean, if looking at a page that has the word "Privacy" in the title wasn't a hint, then I don't know what was.

The registration hack is not so difficult. Using a one-time email address is a decent alternative, but keep in mind that tracking via email address is no longer necessary. It is merely one identifier. Corporations use IP address, MAC address, adjacent Bluetooth signals, WiFi SSIDs saved in memory... all of these to track people. If the concern is having your access to books revoked or your notes/highlights/page turns tracked, the best solution is to turn WiFi off and never turn it on again.

You can still buy books from the Kobo store and side load them. Just be sure to strip the DRM from it so you don't have to use ADE.

Which has been heavily discussed throughout MobileRead for more years than I've been here. The information about this is very easy to find.

[crasspumpkins]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've never once read of anyone losing access to their Kobo purchased eBooks.

You had never read of anyone losing access to their books purchased from the Microsoft E-book Store, until it happened. The point being: just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future.

Check out the TOS: https://authorize.kobo.com/terms/termsofuse

Viewing ebooks you purchased from Kobo is part of their service. You agree to the terms of this page when you use the service. They can modify the terms at any time, without notice. If you don’t abide by the terms, they can delete your account and all your books with it.

Even worse, they reserve the right to use the device you purchased to display ads based on the data they collected from you about what you read. And if you don’t like it, your only remedy is to delete your account and give back any of the books you “purchased” (which you didn’t actually purchase because you don’t have a right to it unless Kobo thinks you do).

[rashkae]

Loosing access to DRM media is the unavoidable end of *all* drm media... Even when the companies don't close, they arbitrarilty eventually stop functioning. (Microsoft and Google included.). I am personally surprised that Adobe ebook drm is still a thing at all... (the cost kobo, or any e-book vendor, is paying for that is astronomical.).

All that being said, the solution for that is simply to remove drm from your books and save a copy. This has *nothing* to do with device registration or how you want to fake it/skip it.

More enlightened people might realize that clinging to digital goods you likely only read once is kind of silly, and you should just read your books then forget about it.