Seriously thoughtful The NEW Covid Vaccination Poll

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Almamida

Bear with me, English is not my first language and I moved to Toronto 5 years ago. So there might be some oddities when I express myself.

FWIW, your English is spot on. I would never have guessed that it is not your first language. Not even a hint otherwise.

I may not agree with much of what you say, but that is not because you are not expressing yourself well. You are very well spoken in the English language.

At least we can agree on that. It's a start.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Almamida

I don’t need to know you to understand you’re in a privileged position when you say to someone that they play the card of the immunosupressed or that the word hysteria isn’t charged with misogynistic meanings. And on top of that you had some fun re-reading through the conversation. That’s what I mean.

Someone is privileged if they mention that someone who is immunosuppressed brings that up frequently? Someone is privileged if they don't agree with your interpretation of the common word "hysterical"? Someone is privileged if they had fun re-reading a conversation?

That doesn't even make any sense. What does privilege have to do with any of that?

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by haertig

Someone is privileged if they mention that someone who is immunosuppressed brings that up frequently?

Privilege is not needing to think about being immunosuppressed. So, yes.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Privilege is not needing to think about being immunosuppressed. So, yes.

"Privileged" is having some kind of special right, some kind of special protection, some kind of special treatment that is not available to others. The emphasis being on "special", as in "undeserved" or "falsely granted".

There is nothing special about having a normal immune system. That condition is ... normal. Some people don't have a normal immune system, and that is a very unfortunate thing. But it doesn't mean that they can redefine a normal person as some kind of pharaoh worthy of disdain, simply because they are normal.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Almamida

I don’t understand what your examples have to do with hysteria.

As I said, meaning change over time. Are you stating the average Canadian when asked about the word hysteria would automatically think of female hysteria?

Originally Posted by Almamida

Bear with me, English is not my first language and I moved to Toronto 5 years ago. So there might be some oddities when I express myself.
By “rightfully offended” I mean being offended for the right reasons.

IMNSHO, anyone who needs to state "offended for the right reasons" is attempting to claim a moral high ground.

Originally Posted by Almamida

I don’t need to know you to understand you’re in a privileged position when you say to someone that they play the card of the immunosupressed or that the word hysteria isn’t charged with misogynistic meanings. And on top of that you had some fun re-reading through the conversation. That’s what I mean.

Yawn. Are you attempting to claim that "I deserve special treatment because I am afflicted with a <fill in condition of your choice>" is not an attempt to claim a position of privilege? Your own words show that you are a person who believes that equal treatment is not enough. The type of person whose behaviour reflects, as it was put in Animal Farm, "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others".

And again, hysteria may have been misogynistic 150 years ago. That is pretty much of historical interest only at this point in time. I am somewhat curious as to whether you also object to the use of the word vagina? As in every Roman centurion had a vagina for his gladius.

As for having fun re-reading the conversation. I find it totally risible that you are attempting to claim that taking the time to do makes me privileged.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by haertig

"Privileged" is having some kind of special right, some kind of special protection, some kind of special treatment that is not available to others. The emphasis being on "special", as in "undeserved" or "falsely granted".

There is nothing special about having a normal immune system. That condition is ... normal. Some people don't have a normal immune system, and that is a very unfortunate thing. But it doesn't mean that they can redefine a normal person as some kind of pharaoh worthy of disdain, simply because they are normal.

Please look at the theory of social privilege. Here's the Wikipedia page, even. Having a normal immune system automatically gives you opportunities that immunocompromised people do not have, yet they refuse to acknowledge that.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Privilege is not needing to think about being immunosuppressed. So, yes.

Privilege is not having to use a text to speech device to read this thread.
Privilege is not having to use a text to Braille scanner to read your textbooks.
Privilege is not having to manoeuvre your wheel chair into a handicapped stall.
Privilege is being able to speak without needing assistive technology.
Privilege is being able to feed yourself.
Privilege is being able to hike up the Grouse Grind.

A good part of my employment is working with people who use various forms of assistive technology to use computers and technology in general. When I look at them, I feel privileged to be able to help them but I do not feel that I, personally, am privileged. Lucky yes since I feel that I came out on the winning side of the genetic lottery.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Please look at the theory of social privilege. Here's the Wikipedia page, even. Having a normal immune system automatically gives you opportunities that immunocompromised people do not have (such as not being told repeatedly that you should die for the sake of the economy), yet they refuse to acknowledge that.

Yawn. As the first sentence says, "Social privilege is a theory of special advantage or entitlement". I did appreciate the reference to W. E. B. DuBois's The Souls of Black Folk but most of the other references tend to get into circular arguments. Do you feel guilt over your First World privilege?

As for not being told repeatedly you should die for the sake of the economy? People come up to you on the street almost everyday and tell you to drop dead because you are immunocomprised? You have been refused a job because you are immunocompromised? You have been told to get off the bus because you are immunocompromised? Your attempt to purchase a home has been blocked because you are immunocompromised. You have been attacked on the street, pushed to the ground and kicked because you are immunocompromised?

As for dying for the sake of the economy? Try talking to some older people. Some of my acquaintances who are getting into old age run into that pretty much everyday. I assume that you feel privileged for being young.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Having a normal immune system automatically gives you opportunities that immunocompromised people do not have...

There are a ton of opportunities that I have had that you haven't. And just as many that you have had that I didn't.

Example:

(Assuming you don't happen to be an engineer - then my example falls apart) ... I had the opportunity to attend a highly respected engineering school. You did not (again, assuming you are not an engineer - wouldn't it just be my luck if you were?!)

I had this opportunity because I spent a lot of time studying and learning in my youth. I made good grades. I concentrated in math and sciences. I applied myself. And I was accepted to that college.

This does not make me "privileged" above you. But it is an opportunity I had that you didn't (and man, I really hope that you aren't an engineer!)

Opportunity does not equal privilege. Some people make their own opportunities.

[ownedbycats]

I... give up.

[DNSB]

Can we drop the arguments about non-Covid-19 related topics and get back to the usual arguments about how the whole pandemic could have been handled better?

[haertig]

What is interesting here, is that covid restrictions are all but gone, except in a very few places. I've been to several NHL hockey games (indoors) now. We're talking 10,000+ people in the same space. Waiting outside there are literally several thousand packed in like sardines trying to get through the doors and metal scanners.

Even though our news says only about 1/2 of the people here are vaccinated, we are not seeing cases go up. They are going way down actually.

People have mostly abandoned masks. They are packing themselves into crowds, drunk, screaming at the top of their lungs at huge sporting events. In the past, these would have been called "super spreader events" and the public would have been lectured on how they were killing untold numbers of other people.

But covid cases are going down and down. What's up with this? Vaccines certainly help a bunch, but that's only 1/2 half of the population that has been vaccinated. What force is now protecting the other half? It's not masks, because few are wearing them now. It's not avoiding large groups, because those are everywhere now.

I am not a covid denier or anti-vaxxer (I had acquaintances die of covid, friends who have long term lingering sickness from it, and I have been vaccinated). But what is going on here? We have had a massive near-instantaneous relaxing of all the previous rules, lockdowns and mandates - but things have not gotten worse. They have gotten better. This is difficult to understand. I'm sure the vaccines are playing a huge part. And warmer summer weather as well. But I am still surprised at the apparent rapid retreat of covid around here.

[Almamida]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

I... give up.

So do I.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by haertig

Even though our news says only about 1/2 of the people here are vaccinated, we are not seeing cases go up. They are going way down actually.

Is there any estimate of how many of the other half have had covid-19?

They could do a rapid anti-gen test when they vaccinate to get a handle on that.

BR

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Is there any estimate of how many of the other half have had covid-19?

They could do a rapid anti-gen test when they vaccinate to get a handle on that.

BR

Just in my own little world...the majority of people I know personally who have NOT been vaccinated have also had covid. For the ones I've talked to, having covid was their reason for not being vaccinated. Most also had it before the vaccine was released.

My world is pretty small...

We had the first large family get-to-gether in 16-17 months with hubby's side today. His mom turned 91 a few days ago, and was taken out of the nursing home for a week to spend time with family. It was wonderful to see everyone, gathered without masks and group size limits.