Problems with page breaks/blank pages/line spaces

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

OK, thank you Jon.

I've edited my post. Please have a reread. And you are welcome.

[Turtle91]

Did any of those changes fix the spacing problems?

I can understand not wanting a user to change something you’ve worked hard getting just right. In the world of paper books, once it went to print your work was there for all to see. Electronic books is a slightly different mindset; the “artistry” is getting the product to look good across multiple devices (screen sizes, orientation, hi-res color vs e-ink gray scale) and taking into account the reflowable nature of the text.

I just got a book on Amazon that wouldn’t even download to my older e-ink kindle, so I had to buy a newer fire tablet. $50 for a newer tablet that is still excruciatingly slow kinda upsets me to begin with… but when I open the book I find that the publisher basically made each page an image … I couldn’t change anything… now, I know a guy (definitely not me )that has worsening vision and MUST be able to change the font size just to be able to see the words without wearing huge glasses. When you change font size too much, then large margins become an issue… I had to return the book and gave a bad review, not because the author did a bad job, but because of the formatting decisions they made. I hope they fix the book - and I’ll update my review if they do.

As for the “error” Jon mentioned in your css, it was an extra { … some apps/devices will totally disregard the entire css file if even a single error is found (which is against the standard). There are websites where you can validate your css for errors… Sigil has a built-in function that sends it to get checked. I think it was just a copy/paste error since your full css copy didn’t have it in there.

Also, you certainly do not need to have the text-align:justify in your book. I’m sure you’ll appreciate that, historically speaking, text that isn’t “justified” was considered unprofessional - something about how long it took typesetters to figure out proper spacing, or some such… Today it is simply a preference - some like it, some don’t - and when you can switch between left/right/justified with the push of a button it’s not so much a “professional” thing anymore. As a matter of fact… since you said that ALL your text was right aligned, I would recommend not having the “justify” in there at all, and putting the right align in your css for that particular class.

[olbeggaols]

Hello Dion,

Thank you for this follow-up.

I have not yet got around to fixing my e-books. It will likely be a while as I am now putting my effort into PDFs with the main idea of printing the books out as a backup/reading measure. Out of curiosity I am sure I will fiddle with the line space issue shortly enough, and will post results to this thread.

I empathize with the eyesight problems as I am having same (and ... not a baby boomer, the one before that, I think they call us the silent generation; more like the generation nobody listened to ... but the baby boomers are hitting the 70s and that is going to be a huge market for things like larger e-screens, buttons that accommodate fat unsteady fingers, and a million other things elder-helpful). Here again PDFs seem to be ahead of the game. The problem is reading them on these small screens. I am seriously considering plunking out $900 for the Boox 13.3". I tried the reMarkable but it was useless: screen is still too small and was unfriendly in terms of expanding the size (runs off the screen and has no good way to move the text around) and it was very slow at page turning anything larger than a pamphlet.

I currently use TextPad as my editor and validate with CSE Html Validator. I am now valid all around.

PS: Moderators. There is something not working right about the forum. I accessed the sight via the link in the e-mail notice, logged in. Tried to respond to Dion's post and get told I am not logged in where I can see that I am logged in just above.

[olbeggaols]

Hello,

Just so you guys don't think you waisted your time, I went back and redid the MOBI book that had the extra line-spaces.

Everything looks fine in Calibre, but loaded onto my Kobo it's obecannogo. Still has extra line spaces.

At this point I am letting this e-book thing go for a time to work on PDFs which was the reason for getting into these books in the first place.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

I just got a book on Amazon that wouldn’t even download to my older e-ink kindle, so I had to buy a newer fire tablet. $50 for a newer tablet that is still excruciatingly slow kinda upsets me to begin with… but when I open the book I find that the publisher basically made each page an image … I couldn’t change anything… now, I know a guy (definitely not me )that has worsening vision and MUST be able to change the font size just to be able to see the words without wearing huge glasses. When you change font size too much, then large margins become an issue… I had to return the book and gave a bad review, not because the author did a bad job, but because of the formatting decisions they made. I hope they fix the book - and I’ll update my review if they do.

Here is another eBook on Amazon that has each page as an image. I borrowed it from Overdrive. It was only available as a Kindle eBook. But I borrowed it. When I found out it was only images, I returned it right away and deleted all copies.

A Series of Unfortunate Events: Lemony Snicket: The Unauthorized Autobiography by Lemony Snicket

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006NZ7HD4

[olbeggaols]

Hello Again,

Just for the record, I tried two other things:

I added the line-height property to the font-size properties,
and I deleted all blank lines from the file.

Neither did anything to solve the problem.

[Quoth]

Have NO line-height setting anywhere.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

Hello Again,

Just for the record, I tried two other things:

I added the line-height property to the font-size properties,
and I deleted all blank lines from the file.

Neither did anything to solve the problem.

Can you post the HTML code for one of the files that fails to work properly?

[Notjohn]

>Today it is simply a preference - some like it, some don’t -

And some will refuse to buy, or will return, a book that isn't justified.

So yeah, put align=justify in your normal paragraph style, because if you don't, I for one will never go further than the Look Inside sample (which, unlike the downloaded book, will often or always show ragged right).

[olbeggaols]

Hello All,

Shame on me!

This problem was caused by the settings on my Kobo which I had madly mushed around when I first set it up.

It must be on a format-specific basis as the e-pubs were ok.

Notjohn: Thank you for this advice. However this case is not the usual one. The books are not for sale. The audience will either want them or not, want the format or not. The audience will expect ragged right. The important thing in the case of these books is the content.

Quoth: Line-heights. I do not understand how this would be any different than specifying font-size. I inserted this property following another publishers style sheet where the appearance was propper. My Kobo, now that I have found the appearances customization Aa has options for line-height and also the ability to use the publisher's default font. Even after adjusting line spacing as they call it, the line spacing is too much, but not approaching the problem as it was previously.

I will now go and hide.

My sincere apologies for wasting everyone's time.

Edit: the other publisher's book, that read properly, read properly because I was reading it in Calibre, not my Kobo. Old age! The faculties are failing.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

>Today it is simply a preference - some like it, some don’t -

And some will refuse to buy, or will return, a book that isn't justified.

So yeah, put align=justify in your normal paragraph style, because if you don't, I for one will never go further than the Look Inside sample (which, unlike the downloaded book, will often or always show ragged right).

Please don't give bad advice. There is no need for justify any other place then body.Once there, the entire book is justified except for where it's specified not to be justified.

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

Hello All,

Shame on me!

This problem was caused by the settings on my Kobo which I had madly mushed around when I first set it up.

It must be on a format-specific basis as the e-pubs were ok.

Notjohn: Thank you for this advice. However this case is not the usual one. The books are not for sale. The audience will either want them or not, want the format or not. The audience will expect ragged right. The important thing in the case of these books is the content.

Quoth: Line-heights. I do not understand how this would be any different than specifying font-size. I inserted this property following another publishers style sheet where the appearance was propper. My Kobo, now that I have found the appearances customization Aa has options for line-height and also the ability to use the publisher's default font. Even after adjusting line spacing as they call it, the line spacing is too much, but not approaching the problem as it was previously.

I will now go and hide.

My sincere apologies for wasting everyone's time.

Edit: the other publisher's book, that read properly, read properly because I was reading it in Calibre, not my Kobo. Old age! The faculties are failing.

Glad to hear you got it fixed!

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

>Today it is simply a preference - some like it, some don’t -

And some will refuse to buy, or will return, a book that isn't justified.

So yeah, put align=justify in your normal paragraph style, because if you don't, I for one will never go further than the Look Inside sample (which, unlike the downloaded book, will often or always show ragged right).

So you would rather return a book instead of pushing the button to set the alignment as you wish?!?!?


I can certainly understand returning a book if there was something preventing you from resetting it, but just because it makes you push the Aa, then the align: justify button....that's..... a little extreme...




But, that is totally your right to have your opinion and preferences!!

[Tex2002ans]

I'm glad to see you finally found what your ultimate issue was:

Clicking crazy line-spacing settings on your actual ereader.

Great that you fixed it.

... And I already typed out this entire post this morning, pre-solution, so I'm going to post it anyway. You can probably skip this first chunk, unless you want more help cleaning up your code:

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

First go around I had problems with certain pages where I want the content to appear all on one page on the screen; pages appeared properly in Calibre, were broken in Kobo Forma and Kindle.

I skimmed through this topic, and still don't see the exact code.

Can you please post:

• Your HTML for all 3 files
  
  • Title Page + Dedication + Copyright
• Your latest CSS.

Or maybe easier: Create an EPUB with just those 4 files inside and attach it so we could see.

I'm going to take a complete stab in the dark. I believe you have 3 separate HTML files:

- titlepage.xhtml
- dedication.xhtml
- copyright.xhtml

Ereaders start each HTML file on a completely new page... so your "page breaks between" are a complete non-issue.

And your crazy line-spacing, there has to be an issue in your CSS, because it's not normal.

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

The question then becomes what about exotic diacriticals? There are only a few fonts that I am aware of that have the full set that I will need.

What rare characters are you using?

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

Images first: I don't think that the pages made into images, placed in html files are going to disturb readers in this case as they are only the front-matter pages (copyright, dedication, title page) and disturb more broken.

As others have explained, this is an extremely poor idea.

Ebooks are not like physical books. They are read using all different:

• size devices
  
  • Large computer monitors -> tiny cellphones.
• fonts
  
  • Specialized fonts for Dyslexia.
    
  • Fonts that work in Print may not work well on e-ink.
    
    • Like Times New Roman.
• font sizes
  
  • Small font to HUGE FONT
    
    • Think person with poor eyesight.
• colors
  
  • Night Mode
    
    • Black background+white text.
  • Or maybe even Green/Red.
    
• methods
  
  • Text-to-Speech
    
    • Computer reads out loud to you.
  • Search/Highlight/Dictionary-Lookup
    
  • Copying/Pasting
    
  • Auto-Translated Text
    
    • Think Google Translate.

Shoving text-within-images completely breaks all of this.

You'll also be causing yourself a ton of pain in the future when higher resolution devices come out, because you'll have to redo all your low resolution images.

Remember when 600x800 used to be the cover size? How do you think those look now at 4K?

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

I empathize with the eyesight problems [...] and that is going to be a huge market for things like larger e-screens, buttons that accommodate fat unsteady fingers, and a million other things elder-helpful).

Exactly. Which is why properly designed, Accessible ebooks are fantastic.

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

Here again PDFs seem to be ahead of the game. [...]

LOL.

Originally Posted by olbeggaols

[...] The problem is reading them on these small screens.

That's the hugest of huge problems.

PDFs are designed as a print-replica format. On anything smaller than the originally designed page size, they're a complete disaster.

Trying to shove a 6"×9" (or A4/7"×10"/8.5"×11") page onto a cellphone is a joke:

• The text is too small, so you zoom in.
• Then you can't even read a single line/paragraph on your screen, so you start panning/scanning.
• You run across a figure, so you zoom out so you can read the chart.
• Then zoom back in super close because the caption is in teeny tiny font.
• Then zoom out slightly to continue reading.
• [...].

(All the same problems with FXL [Fixed Layout] EPUBs too, except those are even worse.)

With ebooks, you can read it on your cellphone + computer + ereader, in all different fonts and colors, and everything just fills your screen and reflows... exactly like a website.

For example, I read ebooks on my:

• computer in their original form.
• cellphone reading Text-to-Speech as I do things around the house.
  
  • Plus Night Mode so my eyes don't hurt from the blinding white background.
• ereader while laying in bed.

Font sizes: I like smaller/denser on my cellphone, slightly larger on my e-ink.

Copying/Pasting is very important to easily share/cite information. (Yes, even the copyright page! Just this week we discussed a busted up Churchill ebook, and the version number + metadata was important.)

And having text translated was absolutely integral for me, especially this past year. I was reading a ton of information about THE VIRUS, which was only available in German—and I don't read a word of German.

So I was able to get that information tossed through Google Translate (or better: DeepL).

If this stuff was locked away in physical books, images-of-text, or the dreaded PDF, that wouldn't have been possible.

(Note: Actually, I was surprised that Google Translate worked on purely digital PDFs... but it definitely wasn't a nice experience. Nowhere near as good as HTML/EPUB. And there's no way it would work on scanned PDFs.)

[olbeggaols]

Hello Tex2002ans

Here is a link to my "What's New?" page where I have announced the availability of several e-books, mostly PDFs but several that also have e-pub; mobi; and azw3 formats. As stated earlier, these are free to download and are in the Public Domain.

http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dha...htm#O.05.24.21

Note that only one of these, the MOBI for MN 1 The Root of All Evil, has the latest css. And not that this latest css is itself just one of a variety used to try and solve the problem of line-spaces. You will see it has line-height and specifies the font both of which I was told should not be there. This was just to see how it looked after I had found the solution to the line-spacing problem. ... and it relates to the problem of limited fonts for the diacriticals I use (see attached). This was the file I used going back and forth during this forum thread. As I say on that page, I have given up for the time the creation of e-books other than in PDF form.

I hope to return to the creation of the other formats at some point, so the information I have learned here is valuable to me.

I am going with PDFs for what you term their only use: Creating documents which will print as seen (and printing them). Since these documents were created from clean (error-free) html files created for reading on line (with emphasis on research (comparison of multiple related documents) and citing) of pages set up for large format viewing there is no problem with copy and paste or mechanical translation (being translations themselves, comparing machine translation to the difficulty of real-life translation from what is a dead language about which there are multiple conflicting views as to meanings, it strikes me as humerous to even think of such); but that issue is intended to be dealt with on my site by having html versions available there. Times are changing and I see the e-book as the next move away from reading on line, but for me that is second to a hard-copy backup.

I have attached a file which shows the complete list of special characters that I need for this discipline.

Pages as images. I hear you. When/if I return to the creation of the formats other than PDFs I will devote more time to this. Your pointers and those of the others are well taken.