Seriously thoughtful The NEW Covid Vaccination Poll

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by cromag

Yet another reason I'm glad our governor has stuck with the stricter regulations.

There is that for sure.

And there is also my lack of confidence in medical science. I'm in my sixties, and over the decades I’ve watched several relatives slowly and horribly die of cancer, including my mom and oldest brother and several aunts and uncles. In each case the doctors fed them with false hope, telling them they could easily beat the cancer, even when it was in stage 4. The sad truth is, the medical science just doesn't have a handle on many cancers yet, not even close. So they try the placebo psychology thing where they tell the patient all is well even though the doctors know it isn't.

I definitely believe in science, and we are certainly way farther advanced than we were a century ago, but we are still not as advanced as we need to be for treating cancer and other diseases, especially pandemics that pop up and rapidly take root. In the USA we have a terrible healthcare system compared to other 1st world countries. They do not fill me with confidence. I'm confident they are doing all they can to understand this pandemic, but my confidence level in their current state of knowledge is far from 100%. It might be safe for the fully vaccinated like myself to stop wearing masks in public, but until I feel completely confident that it is, I will err on the side of caution and keep wearing my mask, and I will avoid public places where masks are optional. I do this not for myself as much as for those who have not been vaccinated and/or have survived COVID-19. I care not whether they are anti-vaxers or simply can’t take the vaccines, I don't want to accidently spread it to them.

As I said, just because this study or that one says fully vaccinated people can’t spread COVID-19 doesn't mean that is true. It just means someone "thinks it is". Far too often we have read studies that say one thing, then a few years later read studies which proclaim the opposite. Currently, I'm simply not confident enough in these studies to fully trust them yet.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

The problem isn't so much to do with you, a vaccinated person. The problem is, this is being done on an honor system. There are no vaccine passports. Nobody knows who is vaccinated and who isn't. People who choose not to get vaccinated can take their masks off and there is no way for anyone else to know who they are and avoid them.

And what is the proposed solution to this? Require everyone to carry vaccination documents and show them to any other person who challenges them?

Since the unvaccinated are only a threat to other unvaccinated people, it would seem easiest for all unvaccinated people who are concerned about the situation to do their best to protect themselves. This would mean: (1) avoiding other people, (2) wearing masks, and (3) getting vaccinated as soon as possible. Which are exactly the same recommendations that have been out there for months and months.

Note that there has been NO CHANGE to recommendations for unvaccinated people.

If your worry is that some unvaccinated person will pretend to be vaccinated, you can't hold a truly vaccinated person responsible for that. That's like saying your neighbor to the south has too many children so you're going to castrate your neighbor to the north who has none.

If you want to control the problem, it never works to bring your wrath down on those who are not part of the problem. Not only does this not work, but it irritates those that are not part of the problem, and then your situation will typically get even worse. Vaccine passports are a perfect example of this. You want to see the situation degrade, just try requiring those.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by OtinG

And there is also my lack of confidence in medical science.

It was these same people you do not trust who told you to wear the mask in the first place.

[4691mls]

I kind of wish we could have vaccine passports so I would know what I'm dealing with. However, I know this is not going to happen.

I've been thinking about comparison earlier in this thread between those who legitimately can't be vaccinated and those with food allergies. I don't think this is a fair comparison. Most people with food allergies are OK as long as they maintain control over what they eat. If they have a severe allergy, maybe they can't eat in restaurants or go to places where food is served. But most people with food allergies can (at least pre-pandemic) safely go out to work, stores, the bank, etc.

As long as Covid is a threat and unvaccinated people are going around without masks, people who can't be vaccinated for legitimate reasons or are immunocompromised will be at risk any time they go out to do any errands.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

As long as Covid is a threat and unvaccinated people are going around without masks, people who can't be vaccinated for legitimate reasons or are immunocompromised will be at risk any time they go out to do any errands.

This is true for many other diseases, not just covid.

What is your proposed solution?

[haertig]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I kind of wish we could have vaccine passports so I would know what I'm dealing with.

Would you be willing to get close enough to an unknown, unmasked person to check their passport? That seems counterproductive.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

Would you be willing to get close enough to an unknown, unmasked person to check their passport? That seems counterproductive.

Perhaps they should be required to walk around ringing a bell and shouting "Unclean"? Rent clothing optional.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by haertig

This is true for many other diseases, not just covid.

What is your proposed solution?

I guess I was thinking more of businesses checking them at the door and requiring masks.

Obviously this is not going to happen.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by haertig

This is true for many other diseases, not just covid.

What is your proposed solution?

I don't see how you can compare Covid with other common diseases. Covid has been so highly contagious.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I don't see how you can compare Covid with other common diseases. Covid has been so highly contagious.

If you have a compromised immune system, EVERYTHING is highly contagious. Even things that do not affect the general population at all.

[DiapDealer]

My god. Looks like this thread has run its inevitable course as well.

[Deskisamess]

When shopping "normally" in a grocery store, or retail store such as Target, I've never been up close and breathing on strangers. It's been pretty well proven that covid doesn't transfer from casual contact with touch, on shopping carts etc.

If a person has a compromised immune system, or is going through chemo or treatment that lowers their immunity, their "care" onus is on them or their caregiver. My BIL is currently going through chemo/immunotherapy. He's not going out in public places. When my sister went through chemo before covid, she stayed out of crowded public places, like grocery stores. That's the way it's always been.

It's not right to expect the entire population to continue to wear masks, because there are folks around who can't have the vaccine. Those folks were more susceptible to some illnesses before covid.

Covid doesn't change that. It adds another layer of challenge for those people, but expecting continued masking, in states/countries that have done a good job of vaccinating those who wish to be vaccinated, is not a decent expectation. Especially when it's proven that it isn't medically necessary.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

My god. Looks like this thread has run its inevitable course as well.

Yes, I agree. @haertig appears to be off in his own delusional world and seems to have trouble interpreting/understanding what others here have written. At any he has gone off on a bizarre tangent…

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by haertig

Would you be willing to get close enough to an unknown, unmasked person to check their passport? That seems counterproductive.

Bluetooth: Didn't really work for proximity logging, but it could work for this by getting phones to interrogate nearby phones for vaccination status - fully, partly, none, unknown.

I'm joking of course, but it's the sort of thing South Korea might introduce, they like hi-tech.

BR

[mlewis78]

Originally Posted by OtinG

Yes, I agree. @haertig appears to be off in his own delusional world and seems to have trouble interpreting/understanding what others here have written. At any he has gone off on a bizarre tangent…

I agree. Haertig has been full of it on here.