Seriously thoughtful The Covid Vaccination Poll

[haertig]

Originally Posted by meeera

Ah, I didn't realise that you actually don't know what it means.

I only know what the dictionary tells me, and life experiences in use of the word, and I suppose from being taught in early years in school too, although I don't remember specifically being taught that word in school.

I can see the word root now that you point it out. "Hyster" and how that relates to "womb" (thus "woman") as in "hysterectomy".

But even though I acknowledge now seeing that word root, that does not mean that I agree that the word, as it is commonly used today, is sexist. "Hysterical media" has nothing to do with wombs, even though the word root does.

If you dig into ancient word roots when reading someones thoughts, no doubt you will confuse many people (including myself), and end up fighting many battles that should never have been.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

If you dig into ancient word roots when reading someones thoughts, no doubt you will confuse many people (including myself), and end up fighting many battles that should never have been.

The usage isn't ancient, like I said. But I recognise that not everyone is as au fait with Western medical history as I am. Now that you know it's a sexist word, perhaps you could consider substituting an alternative.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by meeera

Now that you know it's a sexist word, perhaps you could consider substituting an alternative.

I know that you consider it a sexist word. But I do not consider it a sexist word. I doubt many people consider it sexist. It is not the slightest bit sexist in the context that I have used it in, although intentionally using it in certain other contexts could be sexist. e.g., "That stupid hysterical woman" would definitely be sexist. "Hysterical media" is not sexist. But you can do these things - make something offensive via context - with ANY word. It is not the word that is offensive, it is the context you are using it in. I agree that some words are offensive by their nature, but "hysterical" is not one of them.

We will have to agree to disagree here. I do not plan to support your crusade against this commonly used word, that is not as you describe it to be.

[Almamida]

She just explained you why it’s a sexist term in this case though. And she’s right in the origin of this term. It’s not because it’s been popularized and commonly misused that we should continue to do so. Especially after she nicely gave an explanation.

I was able to convince my mum to get the vaccine, and both of my parents plus my aunt and uncle got their first shot after me bugging them (nicely) about it.
I’m really glad they came around to change their mind. (They are all close to 70)

[issybird]

Originally Posted by haertig

I know that you consider it a sexist word. But I do not consider it a sexist word. I doubt many people consider it sexist. It is not the slightest bit sexist in the context that I have used it in, although intentionally using it in certain other contexts could be sexist. e.g., "That stupid hysterical woman" would definitely be sexist. "Hysterical media" is not sexist. But you can do these things - make something offensive via context - with ANY word. It is not the word that is offensive, it is the context you are using it in. I agree that some words are offensive by their nature, but "hysterical" is not one of them.

We will have to agree to disagree here. I do not plan to support your crusade against this commonly used word, that is not as you describe it to be.

Try substituting “racist” for sexist in your first few sentences and then use it to a person of color. Actually, don’t.

I know that you consider it a racist word. But I do not consider it a racist word. I doubt many people consider it racist.

Do you still not see what’s wrong with your continued use of this word? And you can count me among the legion of women who do, strongly, find the word sexist and think its use should most particularly be eschewed by men. Find a synonym, for gack’s sake. Don’t continue to offend deliberately. See what I said above about “doubling down.”

[haertig]

Originally Posted by issybird

Do you still not see what’s wrong with your continued use of this word?

OK, I'll tell you what. Take my words, "hysterical media" directly from the post that I wrote previously (scroll back in this thread). Then in your own words, paraphrase what I said so that it is clearly sexist for me to see. You can add words if needed. But you must paraphrase what I said in a meaningful way. If you go whacko with some otherworldly interpretation, I will call you on it.

Show me how "hysterical media" is sexist. I'll read what you say. And if your illustration is convincing, I will apologize for my inadvertent blunder and try not to use the word in your presence (or whatever we call this online talking).

So go ahead, go back and get my words, enhance and embellish them so that what I said is clearly sexist, with no doubt, and then we can discuss if your enhancement/embellishment is reasonable or not. You actually stand a good chance at doing exactly that, because both you and meeera appear to be intelligent and very good debaters. I respect you for that. I do not always agree with you (seems you and I rarely agree), but that's not personal. At least not on my end it isn't.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by meeera

The usage isn't ancient, like I said. But I recognise that not everyone is as au fait with Western medical history as I am. Now that you know it's a sexist word, perhaps you could consider substituting an alternative.

How about hysteresis? It comes from the same root.

Oh yes, what other non-sexist common English word has the exact same meaning, and can be used as a substitute?

As Haertig points out, there is a clearly deliminated, non-sexist referent in the world. What verbal tag describes it?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by meeera

Ah, I didn't realise that you actually don't know what it means. Sorry, I should have explained earlier. The word literally refers to a "wandering womb", from the Greek "hystera", and throughout history has been used to dismiss women's (sometimes medical, sometimes not) issues and concerns as being due to their uterus (and, by extension, their feeble ladybrains).

Why then was the phrase "female hysteria" and not just hysteria used? Or was it just reduncancy in action?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Greg Anos

How about hysteresis? It comes from the same root.

Oh yes, what other non-sexist common English word has the exact same meaning, and can be used as a substitute?

As Haertig points out, there is a clearly deliminated, non-sexist referent in the world. What verbal tag describes it?

Greg, just as an FYI, from long ago Greek lessons, hysteros ( ὕστερος ) is usually translated as later or latter and is a comparative form of ὑπὸ (hypo translated as by or under ) in contrast to hystera ( ῠ̔στέρη ) usually translated as womb.

The joys of sharing space with a theology student.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by issybird

Try substituting “racist” for sexist in your first few sentences and then use it to a person of color. Actually, don’t.

Wait, ... do people of color consider "hysterical" to be a racist word now?

I know that you consider it a racist word. But I do not consider it a racist word. I doubt many people consider it racist.

Yet another bizarre swing of the discussion ... incoming from Pluto.

And no, I do not consider "hysterical" to be a racist word either. I will try to remember to ask my Black and Hispanic friends about this the next time I see them.

??? This discussion is getting a little hard to comprehend. Please, please, tell me how the word is racist. Sorry, you can't use the word's root - that has already been claimed by the sexist faction. Can words have dual roots? If so, well I guess it's OK to go dig up it's sibling racist root and point that out to me.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

??? This discussion is getting a little hard to comprehend. Please, please, tell me how the word is racist. Sorry, you can't use the word's root - that has already been claimed by the sexist faction. Can words have dual roots? If so, well I guess it's OK to go dig up it's sibling racist root and point that out to me.

Words can have multiple roots and in quite a few cases, disputed roots.

Though I suspect that what @issybird was trying to suggest was that if you substituted racist for sexist and repeated your sentence, you might find someone who found it offensive. Possibly with changing hysteria to another word.

OTOH, I've been told often enough that since other than a 3 greats grandmother who was or was not status Indian, I lack the ancestry and/or the XX chromosome pair to feel discriminated against and so I am not qualified to even offer an opinion that anything is or is not racist/sexist/whateverist. I will admit to getting a laugh from someone who used the term "peanut gallery" chastising me for my language.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

We will have to agree to disagree here. I do not plan to support your crusade against this commonly used word, that is not as you describe it to be.

Well, I certainly couldn't have asked any more politely.

Would more evidence have the potential to change your mind? I am by no means alone on this one.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Though I suspect that what @issybird was trying to suggest was that if you substituted racist for sexist and repeated your sentence, you might find someone who found it offensive. Possibly with changing hysteria to another word.

Oh, OK. I did not pick up on that. So she was not claiming the the word "hysterical" is racist ... rather, the word "racist" is racist.

Which it kind of is, given how it is used and thrown around these days.

But I thought we were talking about the word "hysterical". How did "racist" sneak in there???

But maybe it's best to wait for Issy to tell us what she meant in a more clear fashion, rather than speculate on what she was trying to say. Speculating on the meaning of others words, without knowing, is what got us to the place we are in this conversation.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by haertig

Oh, OK. I did not pick up on that. So she was not claiming the the word "hysterical" is racist ... rather, the word "racist" is racist.

Which it kind of is, given how it is used and thrown around these days.

It's gotten to the point that I'm wonder if you're being deliberately obtuse. The analogy was that if you had used a racist word, and I (hypothetically in this scenario being in a group that word had been used to target) had objected and explained why it was racist, and you had tried to overrule me and issue a detemination that indeed the word had in fact not been racist, would you then see the problem with that dynamic.

I have a feeling you wouldn't, though, so perhaps the analogy was falling on fallow ground.

Meanwhile: some alternative suggestions (that also don't fall into the ableist realm): histrionic, overwrought, overreacting, hyperbolic, frenzied, exaggeration-prone

[WT Sharpe]

This was a pretty good thread until certain people entered it and decided to take the simple question, "What’s your Covid vaccination status?" and make it their own personal political battlefield.