The Vent and Rant Thread

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

aren't there laws against such mistreatment of animals ? here we have the "Nallet law" from 1989 which expands on previously existing legislation to define sanitary conditions for animal raisers or keepers. it also outlaws the systematic euthanasia of lost or abandoned animals and prolongs the term they can stay in a shelter. i would hope that such places would be hunted out and closed and all the animals removed to better conditions.

Yes, there are laws, however, the Amish are pretty well known for being a law unto themselves.

They allow rape of their young women with no punishment of the offender except for a stern reprimand. Meanwhile the rape victim is often shunned as having "tempted" the rapist.

The article about the puppy mills doesn't surprise me at all. Regard for, and kindness to, animals is not exactly core to the Amish way of life either.

They make some nice quilts, but that's about all I can say for them.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Yes, there are laws, however, the Amish are pretty well known for being a law unto themselves.

They allow rape of their young women with no punishment of the offender except for a stern reprimand. Meanwhile the rape victim is often shunned as having "tempted" the rapist.

what ??? why are the rapists / animal abusers not prosecuted by the police ?? the amish are not living in an independent territory, right ?? that is so wrong i can't even find words.

The article about the puppy mills doesn't surprise me at all. Regard for, and kindness to, animals is not exactly core to the Amish way of life either.

They make some nice quilts, but that's about all I can say for them.

i don't know very much about them but they seem to be just as bad as any other extremist group from what i see, and worse than some.

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

aren't there laws against such mistreatment of animals ? here we have the "Nallet law" from 1989 which expands on previously existing legislation to define sanitary conditions for animal raisers or keepers. it also outlaws the systematic euthanasia of lost or abandoned animals and prolongs the term they can stay in a shelter. i would hope that such places would be hunted out and closed and all the animals removed to better conditions.

Yes, there are laws against all mistreatment of animals here in the states. There are also local ordinances which stipulate how many of which animals you can have at your residence. This varies by location - each locality has it's own ordinance regarding this. For instance, where I live, by local code you can have no more than 3 dogs (this does not include nursing puppies.) You can have other animals as well (at the same time) but as I said, the code varies from community to community, and often depends on whether you live in a congested city, the suburbs, or a rural farming area.

Many people don't adhere to local codes and take in as many animals as they wish. Some people are "hoarders" and "collect" dogs or cats until they have hundreds in their home. These people are usually found to be emotionally unstable and it takes sometimes years for these people to be found out. They think they're saving the animals when in fact they're hurting them beyond words.

Others, like the puppy mills, somehow manage to hide their nasty business by various means. In the case of the Amish puppy mills that NIGHTLINE exposed, they routinely "de-bark" dogs so that there's no barking to bring attention to the hundreds of dogs on their farms by visitors or passers-by. I can't even describe how they "de-bark" the dogs because it's so upsetting, but it is NOT in the least by any humane or surgical method performed by a vet.

The big problem is that there ARE laws against this, but nothing can be done if no one knows about it. It's usually kept well hidden. And the punishment, when found out, is often not harse enough to dicourage the pratice overall.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

I can't even describe how they "de-bark" the dogs because it's so upsetting, but it is NOT in the least by any humane or surgical method performed by a vet.

i don't think i want to know.

The big problem is that there ARE laws against this, but nothing can be done if no one knows about it. It's usually kept well hidden. And the punishment, when found out, is often not harse enough to dicourage the pratice overall.

i hope that since it has gotten some media attention maybe people will be more on the lookout for them and report them to the police, and hopefully the punishment will be more severe as well.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

Yes, there are laws against all mistreatment of animals here in the states.

Vivisection? Rodeos? Dog breeding? Hunting, shooting and fishing? Ritual slaughter? Factory farming?

I know in the UK the right to perpetrate animal cruelty is actually enshrined in our legal system.
It'd be a bit hypocritical for us to condemn anyone else before sorting ourselves out.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Vivisection? Rodeos? Dog breeding? Hunting, shooting and fishing? Ritual slaughter? Factory farming?

I know in the UK the right to perpetrate animal crulety is actually enshrined in our legal system.
It'd be a bit hypocritical for us to condemn anyone else before sorting ourselves out.

and don't forget the bull fights. i think all those practices are barbaric. factory farming is a very important reason i'm vegetarian, and only buy eggs from chickens who are allowed to run around outside and eat real grain (and even then i buy them pretty rarely).

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Vivisection? Rodeos? Dog breeding? Hunting, shooting and fishing? Ritual slaughter? Factory farming?

I know in the UK the right to perpetrate animal cruelty is actually enshrined in our legal system.
It'd be a bit hypocritical for us to condemn anyone else before sorting ourselves out.

You're right. All these things go on every day and the practice is sanctioned by civilization as a whole. We can argue that many of these things, hunting for instance, is necessary to control overpopulation of certain species in a given area, and that the meat from the hunts is consumed as well, so it is not wasted.

You're also right in that we are all hypocrites to one degree or another. and we all tend to justify our own actions and beliefs as nobler than others. I can enjoy a barrel race at a rodeo, but I think bull riding is terrible. I abhor factory farming, yet I can occasionly eat a cheeseburger if I can refrain from thinking where it came from.

I guess we find mistreatment of dogs and cats more repugnant since we cast them as more intelligent, more cuddly, more noble and often a more adored member of our family than even some family members tend to be.

I guess we all need to look a little closer in the mirror.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

what ??? why are the rapists / animal abusers not prosecuted by the police ?? the amish are not living in an independent territory, right ?? that is so wrong i can't even find words.



i don't know very much about them but they seem to be just as bad as any other extremist group from what i see, and worse than some.

The problem is that they are an entirely closed community. So, even if one of them is doing horrific things, no one else will testify against that person for fear of being kicked out of the community.

By their view, if you are not a member of the community, then you are going straight to hell. The laws of the "English" (which is what they call the rest of us) do not apply to them, only the laws of their god as they interpret them.

For example, they do not send their children to public schools, and they do a piss poor job of educating them. However, the law has never been able to force their children to get any kind of education because they are exempt as a religious organization.

As for prosecuting them for anything else ... the law can only prosecute people that they can prove a crime against. No witnesses ... very hard to do. And, often the Amish will simply hide anyone they feel needs to disappear for a bit. Can't find them, then you can't arrest them.

One girl was repeatedly raped and abused by her own brothers. The Amish stance was that they had reprimanded the "boys" and would punish the girl for speaking out against them. I think she was eventually shunned, and left the community. There are a number of safe houses for Amish youth to help them get out and make the transition into the real world.

There have been news stories about this sort of stuff I can remember from when I was really small .... right up to now. Nothing ever changes with them ... it is as it was and probably always will be with the Amish. As mentioned, I respect some of the artwork that comes out of their communities, but I don't respect their attitude with regard to women and animals.

The Mennonites, on the other and, seem to have their act together .... but then, I've known far more Mennonites than I have Amish. I used to see Amish people at the train station in San Diego all the time (usually traveling to Mexico for medical care of a questionable nature). It's bred into them not to interact with outsiders, so they tend to keep to themselves unless they are positively forced to ask for directions.

Oh well .... not my job to try to teach the Amish how to live a better life or care for their women or their animals. Maybe in another life ... but, not this one.

[nekokami]

FARKING WINDOWS MALWARE!

Sorry, not a good computer day today.

[lilac_jive]

The mennonites by my old college would sell stuff in the farmer's market. They made delicious peanut butter whoopie pies.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

The mennonites by my old college would sell stuff in the farmer's market. They made delicious peanut butter whoopie pies.

Yeah, I worked and went to school with a number of Mennonites. The ones I knew were really good people.

[krisk]

I am a hunter and have participated in numerous rodeos. I don't buy factory farmed beef or pork, it all comes straight from the small farmer. I have in the past bred Newfoundland dogs that get damn near as much attention and time as any human children.

I take a great deal of umbrage at being even referenced to in the same universe, let alone breath as a puppy mill participant.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by nekokami

FARKING WINDOWS MALWARE!

Sorry, not a good computer day today.

YEA! Friends don't let friends run Windows. And, if they run windows certainly don't use IE!

BOb

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by nekokami

FARKING WINDOWS MALWARE!

Sorry, not a good computer day today.

Are you talking about malware that infects Windows OSes, or Windows itself?

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by krisk

I am a hunter and have participated in numerous rodeos. I don't buy factory farmed beef or pork, it all comes straight from the small farmer. I have in the past bred Newfoundland dogs that get damn near as much attention and time as any human children.

I take a great deal of umbrage at being even referenced to in the same universe, let alone breath as a puppy mill participant.

One of my cousins breeds Scotties. She takes an amazing amount of care with them, and makes certain they go to really good homes. However, she only has one breeding pair at a time, and only produces a litter every other year or so.

Of course, she gets top dollar for the puppies because they are all potential show dogs. Puppy mills, on the other hand, are simply there to crank out puppies for pet stores (one reason why I would NEVER get an animal at a pet store .... I think stores that sell live animals should be shut down -- you want a cat or a dog, then go to Pet-Co or Petsmart or your local shelter and ADOPT one).

Puppy mills are simply evil. Breeding dogs or cats and taking good care of them is fine by me. Of course, you'll never catch me buying a pure bred dog or cat. I'm much to fond of mutts and moggies.