Ensuring eBooks are Publisher Authorised

[sempiter]

Hello everybody. This is my first post here, so please accept my apologies for any breaches of forum etiquette.

So let's start. I have bought a lot of eBooks and many come with DRM. Although I'm not especially keen on DRM, I /do/ understand that publishers would like to prevent unauthorised copying of their content.

However, I would also like a measure of reassurance and I'm not absolutely sure that common types of DRM provide it. More specifically, I would like to know that the books I buy are genuine publisher authorised copies. How can I establish that this is the case?

Please note that I only buy eBooks from booksellers that are, as far as I know, reputable. But there is an element of trust involved. Suppose, for the sake of argunent, that unauthorised copies end up being distributed by the bookseller, either on purpose or by accident. It's clearly important for both the publisher and book buyer that this doesn't happen. How can I know this is indeed not happening?

Thank you!

[Sirtel]

My take on the matter is simply that it's the business of the bookseller to sell legal books. The buyer's business is to buy from a well-known and reputable seller. But it's definitely not the buyer's business to worry about the legality of the books bought from that reputable seller.

As to DRM, it's necessary in the case of library and rental books. It should not exist in the case of legally purchased books. And I feel no guilt whatsoever about liberating my legally purchased books.

[issybird]

I think it’s a legitimate concern. Even though I agree with Sirtel that’s it’s the obligation of the seller to sell only legal editions, I also absolutely do not want to support pirates. If it’s a choice between a too-expensive legal edition and a cheap bootleg edition from the same seller, I’d will go without, even if morally (and this is up for debate) I’d be off the hook so long as the purveyor is legit.

To take the prime example, Amazon is rife with bootleg Kindle editions for sale. The bootleg copies can persist for years, even if only a cursory examination shows they’re pirated and they’ve been reported. So long as the rights’ holder isn’t involved, Amazon will look the other way.

However, it’s a good question and I admit I haven’t looked into it. I know not all the bootleg Kindle books have DRM; however, I don’t know if none of them do. If you want to avoid bootleg copies it might take a little dilegence. Most recently for me, it was obvious that the cheap Faulkners being sold by an Indian publisher for much less than the Random House editions are pirated.

[JSWolf]

The only places I've seen illegal eBooks being sold is from Amazon, Smashwords, and any shop where they sell eBooks from Smashwords.

Because Amazon and Smashwords allow self-published eBooks to be uploaded and sold, some people do this with eBooks they don't have the rights to.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

I think it’s a legitimate concern. Even though I agree with Sirtel that’s it’s the obligation of the seller to sell only legal editions, I also absolutely do not want to support pirates. If it’s a choice between a too-expensive legal edition and a cheap bootleg edition from the same seller, I’d will go without, even if morally (and this is up for debate) I’d be off the hook so long as the purveyor is legit.

To take the prime example, Amazon is rife with bootleg Kindle editions for sale. The bootleg copies can persist for years, even if only a cursory examination shows they’re pirated and they’ve been reported. So long as the rights’ holder isn’t involved, Amazon will look the other way.

However, it’s a good question and I admit I haven’t looked into it. I know not all the bootleg Kindle books have DRM; however, I don’t know if none of them do. If you want to avoid bootleg copies it might take a little dilegence. Most recently for me, it was obvious that the cheap Faulkners being sold by an Indian publisher for much less than the Random House editions are pirated.

There is a long standing illegal copy of one of Mary Stewart's Arthurian Saga books up on Smashwords. I've reported it a number of times. And they still ignore it even though the rights to sell it have not been granted in the US.

So this book gets out and it's even available at Overdrive. I could borrow it even because of this.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

My take on the matter is simply that it's the business of the bookseller to sell legal books. The buyer's business is to buy from a well-known and reputable seller. But it's definitely not the buyer's business to worry about the legality of the books bought from that reputable seller.

Yes. Publishers have always TRIED to make consumers liable. But the reality is that it's the distributor or seller that's liable. Or deliberate pirate uploading.

If you are getting from an official seller, that real publishers deal with, then that seller totally has the responsibility. And yes, Amazon, Google Playstore, Smashwords, Barnes & Noble, Apple, Scribed and Kobo do occasionally sell/loan pirated work. Plagiarised work is more subtle.

Archive dot org DOES have public domain material, but they also deliberately loan and offer downloads of copyright material. Be suspicious of PDFs and OCR conversions of scans/PDFs with no proof corrections.

You'll also see poorly done collections on Amazon selling at maybe 99c that are actually Public Domain. Sometimes at better quality on gutenberg.org but that's not illegal or any sort of fraud or violation.

[sempiter]

Thank you for your replies. It’s interesting that Amazon has come up. It was seeing some particularly dubious looking books there that got me thinking about this.

Subsequently, I bought some Random House eBooks, which didn’t seem to have the expected cover images (just some basic grey and white affairs) - and so the doubts grew.

As it happens, the book previews at Google Books and Amazon also have these same basic (auto-generated?) covers, so it may just be a case of the publishers being a bit sloppy or, say, distributing the nicer covers separately rather than within the EPUB packages. Whatever the truth of the matter is, it would be nice to be able to check the authenticity of copies rather than have to rely on guesswork and sleuthing.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by sempiter

Thank you for your replies. It’s interesting that Amazon has come up. It was seeing some particularly dubious looking books there that got me thinking about this.

Subsequently, I bought some Random House eBooks, which didn’t seem to have the expected cover images (just some basic grey and white affairs) - and so the doubts grew.

As it happens, the book previews at Google Books and Amazon also have these same basic (auto-generated?) covers, so it may just be a case of the publishers being a bit sloppy or, say, distributing the nicer covers separately rather than within the EPUB packages. Whatever the truth of the matter is, it would be nice to be able to check the authenticity of copies rather than have to rely on guesswork and sleuthing.

The PRH imprints don’t provide the artwork for ebooks, so that’s not a cause for suspicion. To an extent, you don’t have to overthink this. If the publisher listed is a major one, the book is good. If the publisher is someone you’ve never heard of and it’s a book that reason says is not in the public domain, it’s a ripoff.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by sempiter

Thank you for your replies. It’s interesting that Amazon has come up. It was seeing some particularly dubious looking books there that got me thinking about this.

Subsequently, I bought some Random House eBooks, which didn’t seem to have the expected cover images (just some basic grey and white affairs) - and so the doubts grew.

As it happens, the book previews at Google Books and Amazon also have these same basic (auto-generated?) covers, so it may just be a case of the publishers being a bit sloppy or, say, distributing the nicer covers separately rather than within the EPUB packages. Whatever the truth of the matter is, it would be nice to be able to check the authenticity of copies rather than have to rely on guesswork and sleuthing.

The lack of proper covers is pretty usual. It doesn't mean the book is not legitimate. Many publishers these days try to save money on ebooks by ditching proper cover images.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by issybird

The PRH imprints don’t provide the artwork for ebooks, so that’s not a cause for suspicion. To an extent, you don’t have to overthink this. If the publisher listed is a major one, the book is good. If the publisher is someone you’ve never heard of and it’s a book that reason says is not in the public domain, it’s a ripoff.

But some authors have gotten their rights back from a major publisher and have decided to self-publish some of their older works as ebooks themselves. I know several such cases. Those books are not ripoffs, despite the unknown publisher name.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

But some authors have gotten their rights back from a major publisher and have decided to self-publish some of their older works as ebooks themselves. I know several such cases. Those books are not ripoffs, despite the unknown publisher name.

Perhaps I should have said, “warrants looking into.” The types of books we tend to read probably is a major factor in how reliable is the “sketchy name publisher” litmus test. Offhand, I can’t think of anyone I read who’s reassumed the rights to earlier books and is self-publishing them.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by issybird

Perhaps I should have said, “warrants looking into.” The types of books we tend to read probably is a major factor in how reliable is the “sketchy name publisher” litmus test. Offhand, I can’t think of anyone I read who’s reassumed the rights to earlier books and is self-publishing them.

Yep, it's more common in genre fiction. Jane S. Fancher and Dennis McKiernan come to mind right off.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Yep, it's more common in genre fiction. Jane S. Fancher and Dennis McKiernan come to mind right off.

Also Lois McMaster Bujold. She had the covers redone.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

But some authors have gotten their rights back from a major publisher and have decided to self-publish some of their older works as ebooks themselves. I know several such cases. Those books are not ripoffs, despite the unknown publisher name.

And the cover rights are often the original publisher, so original covers unavailable on ebooks or even a reprint by a new publisher.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

And the cover rights are often the original publisher, so original covers unavailable on ebooks or even a reprint by a new publisher.

But what's the justification for new eBooks not to have covers?